BC Environment Minister says mountains will remain closed.

[YamaDooPolCat]

Over one million hectares of mountain riding in BC has been closed.
But only to snowmobiling.
Industries like logging, heli-skiing, snowshoing, trapping, winter eco tours, and the all important government helicopter are not effected.

How's that make you feel? Special?

Snowmobiles are only allowed in some small areas that the local rural communities have fought tooth and nail for, over the last decade, to keep their towns alive or for some vocal locals (like me). Tourists, mostly from Alberta, have something to ride, but the locals have lost the most.

Since in did not matter to the last 6 Ministers of the Environment in BC that the residents of BC lost most of their snowmobile riding areas, I have been trying to find something that will connect with each new Minister of the Environment as they come along.

So at this point some of you new people might be thinking that kicking snowmobiles out of the mountains was to save the Mountain Caribou. You could not be more bloody wrong. As the snowmobiles were forced out the rate of predation and death of Mountain Caribou has accelerated. The remaining strong populations of Mountain Caribou now only exist where we have managed to retain snowmobile areas or has an active snowmobile equipped trapper and friends to keep his lines open with other snowmobiles. One only has to look at the increase in ungulate populations around our towns and cities to connect those dots.

Nope, the snowmobile ban was for the eco politics and snowmobiles were the cheapest fall guys for that. The snowmobile community was used like dirt.

At the October 2013 Alberta Snowmobile and Powersports Show in Edmonton the BC Government paid for two booths to "educate" the tourists there that BC is closed, except for the tourist riding areas. I felt the negative spin of the British Columbia Government booths was the opposite of what you might expect. The booths were there to discourage any winter tourists from coming to BC that might be thinking about snowmobiling in BC. The emphasis was on how little of BC remains open to snowmobiling as a destination mecca for those seeking deep mountain snow.

I wrote to the newest Minister of the Environment and stated I thought the booths were a disgrace, gave a false reasons for the massive land closures in BC, and probably will cost BC tourist dollars this winter. I got a nice reply from the minister's staff that said, thanks for your concerns. In BC where concerns really matter, is the center of BC where the dirty poluted Fraser River dumps into the Pacific Ocean. All the power to ban snowmobiles comes from the people that live down there.

I was born in rural BC, still live in rural BC, still ride snowmobile, and fight against slimmy land grab agendas every opportunity I get.

So I'm wondering if any of you attended the Oct Edmonton show, and what was your impression of BC? Maybe the Minister will listen to outsiders opinions?

 

[Old Boy]

Good Morn Well said I feel the same. I do not go out sledding anymore because of all BS. The government in the east kootenay have destroyed the hunting and fishing. Gas prices are out of control . The Kootenay park has no animals left. The road through the park has 6,969 Speed Bumps? The hot pool at radium is going to hell no upkeep outside around pool looks like a dump. Truck tires here cost $ 2,500 dollars US $1,100. Farm tractor parts here cost $3,000 US. $1,081. The dust here in town is out of control year round. How for the pick me apart thing .

 

[tantrumpipeline]

It's the lower mainland wrecking the entire province, it's pretty easy to be anti everything when you live in Vancouver and surrounding areas and pollute more than anyone else but feel because they ship their garbage to rural communities like cache creek and pour millions of tons of sewage into the ocean that they're special and Eco friendly because it's the outta sight outta mind, maybe the big earthquake will come and fix them up with any luck

 

[moyiesledhead]

It was never about Caribou....they're just a "species of convenience" for the Yellowstone to Yukon initiative. It was never about science. If it was we never would have been kicked out. There is no credible science that says we caused the decline in the Caribou population. They get eaten in the summer!

It's not just the lower mainland. The local environmental groups had a huge voice in this too.

Snowmobilers are our own worst enemies. I spent the last 20 or so years fighting Caribou closures and, for the most part, couldn't even get my own club members to show up at a public meeting and voice their concerns.
Nobody cares till the signs go up.....then it's my fault!

Another rant over.

Here's where the transplants into the South Purcells went to get eaten. Cranbrook spray irrigation fields.
There's either 2 out of 20 left, or none depending on who you talk to. The Ministry of Environment kidnapped and murdered them to try to recover a herd of only 14 animals in the first place.
If you treated your dog like that you'd go to jail!

I guess I wasn't done ranting after all!

 

[somethingnuw]

It's the lower mainland wrecking the entire province, it's pretty easy to be anti everything when you live in Vancouver and surrounding areas and pollute more than anyone else but feel because they ship their garbage to rural communities like cache creek and pour millions of tons of sewage into the ocean that they're special and Eco friendly because it's the outta sight outta mind, maybe the big earthquake will come and fix them up with any luck

I have always said... you should look at a map of bc and draw a 100km circle around vancouver so it catches most of the fraser valley and bigger city parts of Vancouver Island... these people should not be allowed to vote on things that effect rural BC like sledding, hunting and fishing... no offence to anyone i grew up down there went to high school there... just thank God I had grand parents who lived in Williams Lake... so i know the general attitude of people down there is that everything should be closed... anything resource wise is bad ( this stems from bleeding heart liberal minded tree hugging teachers) sorry but its also true... anyhow most of my friend growning up never left the Lower Mainland when they did it was a new years party bus to Kelowna...or Camping (bing drinking) at Cultus lake... but they all felt they should have their say on hunting and fishing and native rights... drove me nuts.

I don't know what the answer is.... but soon i fear all of outdoor rec stuff will be lost... you just have to look to our brothers to the south to see what restriction they have and realize that if we don't do something that's us in 25 years

 

[Beels]

I'm pretty much to the point where I'm going to ride wherever the hell I want. I'm one of these people that make a conscious effort to pack out everything that got packed in (and more), leave nothing but tracks and it still doesn't seem to matter. Someone with some f-ed up motive is going to boot us out no matter what.

 

[52weekbreak]

Wow. I was at the show and do not recall seeing a booth manned by BC environment types. Did enjoy meeting Ferniesnow though. I plan on heading that way in January and back to the Kakwa in Feb. Any of these areas affected?

 

[X-it]

They have and will land and take you out in handcuffs beels

 

[MOMMA]

I want us all to breathe and remember that we ARE the people...... seriously. We can do this... the more government screws up, the more leverage we have. I haven't lost hope. We fight politics with politics... we can and are banding together with other advocates for motorized recreation and fighting fire with a freakin blow torch... Science is on our side...... all we need is momentum. I'm the president of our club here in Creston, one of our new awesome directors has a lot of political affiliations and wisdom. We need to mobilize and capitalize on their screw ups now. We are moving forward, in some situations it seems dismal, but remember that we ARE the people, we can and will make a difference if directed in the right way. We need to unite winter recreation groups. What the snowboarders and skiers don't realize is that they too are "stressing out the caribou" according to the research so they too are in the agenda for bans. Ironic eh... Don't lose hope, look to other groups .. one suggestion by our wise politician was access bc.. advocates for the public access to crown land. It's a start.. just please don't lose hope. We can do this.

 

[LID]

Don't get a 2 page debate on the subject, but snowboarders and skiers have very little to do with caribou closures and please stop mis-labelling that over and over.

tons of the better guys on skis and snowboard all sled very well and often.

Point the blame where it is deserved at the government, green lobby, granolas, and heli skiing COMPANIES. There are some who hate sleds who ski, but most who ski wish they could do it off a sled.

I don't imagine heli clientele care one way or another if we are sledding all over BC.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Wow. I was at the show and do not recall seeing a booth manned by BC environment types. Did enjoy meeting Ferniesnow though. I plan on heading that way in January and back to the Kakwa in Feb. Any of these areas affected?

Kakwa is managed by BC Parks. There was a very important meeting in June 2005 where it was all set up for snowmobiles to be confined to the road through the park. Some really important and good people showed up uninvited and read the riot act to those at the meeting, and Kakwa remained open. It was the biggest failure the environmentalist have ever had. Even the Seirra Club of Canada parachuted their man into this meeting to impress those fighting our access. On this occasion gerrilla warfare worked for us. We are still pushing to have the rest of the park opened up like Ida and Jarvis lake.

 

[sledneck_03]

Don't get a 2 page debate on the subject, but snowboarders and skiers have very little to do with caribou closures and please stop mis-labelling that over and over.

tons of the better guys on skis and snowboard all sled very well and often.

Point the blame where it is deserved at the government, green lobby, granolas, and heli skiing COMPANIES. There are some who hate sleds who ski, but most who ski wish they could do it off a sled.

I don't imagine heli clientele care one way or another if we are sledding all over BC.

I have to agree. We were in some areas that guys heli ski, and we were parked near a flagged off heli pick up site and they were blown away we were able to get that far into the backcountry on sleds, had many questions on how they work as well as we commented on the basically vertical walls they were skiing down. No hate there at all. Ive heard the heli opperator hates sleds but to be fair where they ski down no one was close to 1/4 of the way climbing up so they have plenty of un tracked fresh to ski down.

 

[moyiesledhead]

one suggestion by our wise politician was access bc.. advocates for the public access to crown land.

Go ahead.....ask me what I think of Access BC.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Don't get a 2 page debate on the subject, but snowboarders and skiers have very little to do with caribou closures and please stop mis-labelling that over and over.

tons of the better guys on skis and snowboard all sled very well and often.

Point the blame where it is deserved at the government, green lobby, granolas, and heli skiing COMPANIES. There are some who hate sleds who ski, but most who ski wish they could do it off a sled.

I don't imagine heli clientele care one way or another if we are sledding all over BC.

You should google this paper by Kathy. This is how you keep your area open, if you have a large donation to write the paper, and get to stay at a fancy heli-lodge. Most if not all of this paper can be applied to snowmobiling. If they heliski, we can snowmobile.

ASSESSING THE IMPACTS OF HELI-SKIING ON THE BEHAVIOUR AND SPATIAL DISTRIBUTION OF MOUNTAIN CARIBOU ([FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]RANGIFER TARANDUS CARIBOU[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT])
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]by
Katharina Jacqueline Huebel
B.Sc. Thompson Rivers University, 2008
[/FONT][/FONT]

Since there has been heli-skiing in the Blue River area for many decades, habituation is one explanation for the fact that animals have not abandoned their range. This would be consistent with mule deer in Arizona which likely habituated towards continued exposure of low-flying aircrafts (Krausman et al. 1986). Animals available to be caught in the skiing area had been exposed to heli-skiing for generations. If there was an initial impact that displaced caribou, it would likely have been decades ago. If there is a continued impact by skiing, it will likely be expressed by the behavioural response and probable short-term displacement noted in Chapter 3 as well as increased chronic stress levels (Freeman 2008).

 

[matm8snopro]

Go ahead.....ask me what I think of Access BC.

What do you think of access BC? I have never dealt with them. Bad experiences??

 

[moyiesledhead]

What do you think of access BC? I have never dealt with them. Bad experiences??

PM sent.

 

[oler1234]

PM sent.

Whats with the secrets.... This is a open forum no?

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

I want us all to breathe and remember that we ARE the people...... seriously. We can do this... the more government screws up, the more leverage we have. I haven't lost hope. We fight politics with politics... we can and are banding together with other advocates for motorized recreation and fighting fire with a freakin blow torch... Science is on our side...... all we need is momentum. I'm the president of our club here in Creston, one of our new awesome directors has a lot of political affiliations and wisdom. We need to mobilize and capitalize on their screw ups now. We are moving forward, in some situations it seems dismal, but remember that we ARE the people, we can and will make a difference if directed in the right way. We need to unite winter recreation groups. What the snowboarders and skiers don't realize is that they too are "stressing out the caribou" according to the research so they too are in the agenda for bans. Ironic eh... Don't lose hope, look to other groups .. one suggestion by our wise politician was access bc.. advocates for the public access to crown land. It's a start.. just please don't lose hope. We can do this.

Hope, against the people crowding snowmobiles out, is not enough. In my experience there is less than half of them have any moral conscience. Every meeting is a new meeting, with any promises and agreements forgotten. New government people than you have not met before show up and continue as if closures are a done deal. When we do meet the latest Environment Minister, it is clear they are compromised by advice from within their staff.

If you go into a meeting with these government types running on hope, you are going to come out with nothing, or even less. Been there, seen that.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Whats with the secrets.... This is a open forum no?

Not gonna publicly comment on another organization here. Don't need another S&M pizzing match.

 

[MOMMA]

Don't get a 2 page debate on the subject, but snowboarders and skiers have very little to do with caribou closures and please stop mis-labelling that over and over.

tons of the better guys on skis and snowboard all sled very well and often.

Point the blame where it is deserved at the government, green lobby, granolas, and heli skiing COMPANIES. There are some who hate sleds who ski, but most who ski wish they could do it off a sled.

I don't imagine heli clientele care one way or another if we are sledding all over BC.

I agree with you, I'd like for all winter enthusiasts to band together to keep access open. The more numbers we have the better. I think that we can maintain an element of peace and share all the areas, and work together to keep pushing back. One loud voice would be awesome.