ZX triple clutch issues

[overkill131313]

not sure where to post "need help" for a ZX with a triple and an AC clutch....so I will try here...lol well been digging into the ZX mod sled that I got from another guy a few years ago......seem to be fixing all the issues.....working on clutch alignment.... it has a AC roller secondary on it. As it opens it seems to hit the jack shaft bolts behind it, and not allowing it to fully open....cant move the engine over any and shim the secondary cause the steering post hits the carb.....(looks like I need a 1/4") Is it possible to use a different steering post out of something else? how do I align the AC clutch to the TRA? ....is there a picture anywhere that shows measurements? Im not looking forward if I need to move the engine over more......last guy could not have rode it and had it work "flawlessly" like he said......

 

[TROLLCAT]

Use a AC alignment bar it works off of the secondary clutch and if it sits down inside the TRA with out touching the inside sheave your good to go.

I would check this before you start chopping the sled up LOL good luck

 

[TROLLCAT]

I also have ski doo secondary clutch's with a 1" hole bore that's what the AC clutch's use if you want to swap it out very cheap

 

[overkill131313]

this sled is going to get parted out soon....lol so my max RPM is 7300 but if Hold it 20 seconds I can get it up to 7600 but it should hit max right away I would say.......so I drilled out my roller pins in the primary which took 1.5g out of each pin....so they are now 14.5 and it raised my RPM from 7200 to 7600 so I change clicker from 3 to 6.....did not notice any difference....I should have gained 600 plus from clickers alone.......what is keeping my RPM down? I want 8500. Trollcat I guess Im going to have to try the ski-doo secondary... I would drill out the rollers more but its not making a difference....Help anyone!

 

[pano-dude]

how many miles on primary spring? Maybe time for a new one?

 

[neilsleder]

That's my guess a worn primary spring or to light of one.


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[Modman]

OK1313 What are you running for jets and EGTs? If you are not making full power then it won't go full shift at that RPM. Make sure the jetting is good. If the jetting is good, it could be that you have too much spring in the primary. Not sure where you got the sled but if it was run at lower altitude, then you need less weight and less spring so it will shift out farther on the primary. Draw a line with a felt from the inside shaft out to the edge of the clutches on both the primary and secondary. Wherever the line wears out to, that is how high you are shifting on the primary and how low you are shifting on the secondary.

Before you play with the clutches though, if the secondary is hitting on the bolts then you have to eliminate that issue before you start changing anything else. could you change the bolts to flat head ones so that it doesn't hit? If not, I would grind or file the motor mount holes so you can move it over and maybe get an angled carb boot to offset the carb a few degrees from the steering post. Lots of options to fix the initial issue and then see if that helps once the secondary can full open.

if your secondary is too tight or the helix is too steep, its not opening up and you might need to drop the spring rate or get a helix with less angle so that it can fully open.

 

[neilsleder]

I knew I shouldn't of replied now my reply sounds dumb compared to that answer!


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[overkill131313]

ya I know I need to address the clutch hitting the bolts but it only does it on flat out speed runs.....I should be able to hit max RPM right from the start.....I cant angle carbs cause they are a rack and moving the motor can only be done if I mod the steering post.....going to get the ski-doo clutch from trollcat I hope next week.....I put a new green /white spring(200-380) in primary today and had the 3 bolts that hold the spring cap come apart......I have no idea how it happened cause with so much spring pressure it should have never backed off......long story short, me and the 14 year old loaded the sled on to the deck which dam near killed me.....Im bring the winch next time.....lol so with this green/white spring it pulled nice (well made the 670 look like it was going in reverse behind me) but as soon as I let the gas off it felt like I hit the brakes.......great engine braking.......oh and not a single gain in RPM....WTF is going on with this top end.....I can lift the ski's at any speed but the engine just wont get over 74-7500....belt is going right to the top of the primary....well about 7/16 from the top....and secondary its going down till the clutch its the bolts last 1/8 of an inch ish....jetting is close well with in one size (EGT are 1100 ish) I have 330 in it right now with 320 waiting to go in but I might need more fuel at the top end so not in a big hurry to put the 320 in right now.....I think im making great power cause it makes the 670 look like its in reverse! .

OK1313 What are you running for jets and EGTs? If you are not making full power then it won't go full shift at that RPM. Make sure the jetting is good. If the jetting is good, it could be that you have too much spring in the primary. Not sure where you got the sled but if it was run at lower altitude, then you need less weight and less spring so it will shift out farther on the primary. Draw a line with a felt from the inside shaft out to the edge of the clutches on both the primary and secondary. Wherever the line wears out to, that is how high you are shifting on the primary and how low you are shifting on the secondary.

Before you play with the clutches though, if the secondary is hitting on the bolts then you have to eliminate that issue before you start changing anything else. could you change the bolts to flat head ones so that it doesn't hit? If not, I would grind or file the motor mount holes so you can move it over and maybe get an angled carb boot to offset the carb a few degrees from the steering post. Lots of options to fix the initial issue and then see if that helps once the secondary can full open.

if your secondary is too tight or the helix is too steep, its not opening up and you might need to drop the spring rate or get a helix with less angle so that it can fully open.

 

[DRD]

To get you close:

1) 200-350 Primary spring
2) Adjustable pins, can't remember how much weight I'm pulling with my 809, 18-19G I think.
3) If running stock cat roller with 47 Helix ditch yellow spring and put something like a Cutler R/W in it
4) Gear it low, I'm at 19/45 or 19/44 with 9 tooth.

 

[overkill131313]

I just bought a brand new 200-380 primary spring....what is the difference with 380 instead of 350? how is 18-19gram weights going to increase my missing 1000 RPM if im running 14.5 now from the 16gram ones? I thought less weight raises RPM? and so does raise clickers but both did really nothing but a few 100 RPM..... cat roller has a 44 helix with a green spring with 18 pounds pull..Trollcat is getting me the stock ski-doo primary next week....as for gearing I have not dug into the chain case yet (probably find more issues lol) or counted the drivers.....but I don't think the gearing will affect my missing 1000 plus RPM out of the hole....sled does fly...like I said it pulls away from my sons 670 like its in reverse......

To get you close:

1) 200-350 Primary spring
2) Adjustable pins, can't remember how much weight I'm pulling with my 809, 18-19G I think.
3) If running stock cat roller with 47 Helix ditch yellow spring and put something like a Cutler R/W in it
4) Gear it low, I'm at 19/45 or 19/44 with 9 tooth.

 

[DRD]

It won't fix your issue, my example is what a good running 780-809 will pull for clutching and would put you close . If it won't RPM with 14G and a 380 finish spring the motor isn't making the power like it should IMO or something is worn/binding.

 

[Modman]

I knew I shouldn't of replied now my reply sounds dumb compared to that answer!


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Your reply was fine, you helped him, not belittled him. You gave him an idea of where to start, he's gotta start somewhere. I don't think people should ever "not reply" for any reason.

...... If it won't RPM with 14G and a 380 finish spring the motor isn't making the power like it should IMO or something is worn/binding.

X2, as per my earlier post. If you can't pull 14s to full spin, then the motor needs some tweaks. Make sure that motor is making power. Pull plugs and check for jetting after a WFO run but 1100 degrees on the EGTs for a piped triple is low IMO, all the triples I ran liked to be hot, 1250+ you could really feel them coming on. Wide open I would run 1250-1320 typically. You need the combustion heat and gas velocity to help it burn the fuel and scavenge the cylinder, even more so with triple pipes. Those triples are about a 70 mm bore, compared to something like 81-82 mm for a stock 800 twin. The smaller the piston, the less "extra" fuel you will need to keep the piston dome cool, the smaller piston is more effective at transferring the heat into the cylinder wall (surface area ratios), compared to something like a 1100 twin with a huge bore. The middle of the piston in an 1100 is a long way from the cylinder wall and so as they heat up, there is nowhere for the heat to go, so you need to keep more fuel in them to help the come stay cooler. This is of course just 1 mans opinion.

 

[overkill131313]

I will lean it out more then. Not sure why RPM did not change more when I drilled out the pins and raised the clickers 3 numbers! If this engine is not making power im surprised how it makes the 670 look when in aa drag race! Like I say it looks like the 670 is in reverse! Lol. Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[pano-dude]

The 670 new was 125 hp the 780 150+ big difference.
If the 670 still has the hac its probably no good and running way rich. I know my kids 670 was night and day difference once i pulled the hac off and jetted it right.

 

[overkill131313]

Definitely no complaints on how the 670 runs cause it flies! Pulls red line and is very crisp and responsive! The triple just has way more power than the twin just like it should! If triple was not making full power I would think the 670 would take it in a drag race!