Tips on how to make the sled handle better?

[Octanee]

Hey guys, so long story short, I bought a 2012 pro rmk with a turbo, 174" track and other odds and ends. I cannot seem to get it to be predictable! I wouldn't want to ride it in some trees, Side hilling along I can't hold a line, I get bucked off back down the hill from bumps, Its tough to get it to shoot up or go down while sidehilling. It's a weird machine. I'm coming off a yamaha apex with the 174, similar setup and skid and all and I can make that thing mingle! this pro It feels like the same effort to make it move.... Or I hop on my dads XM with a 174, and ride that good too, or a arctic cat, but this pro... wow.... whole nother thing!. I disconnected the sway bars and that made it less likely to buck me off a line but you'd think being like 100# lighter I should be walking all over stuff now. Is it just something that takes time? I've even tried turning my ski's while sidehilling to see if that helps it bite to entice it to turn up or down and it doesn't make a difference like it would on other sleds lol

 

[adamg]

Are your shocks / springs too stiff? Or maybe blown out. I know that sidehilling across old ruts is probably the #1 area that good shocks are most noticeable. Bad shocks will buck and kick when you cross the rut, good shocks you won't even feel them.

 

[Octanee]

Good point, they are EXIT shocks, not blown... yet... I know the rear skid is too stiff for sure, the front end feels OK but I could try to loosen them up more and see how they feel.

 

[UltraLiteTriple]

Start from scratch,

 

[Lund]

Should of stayed with your Apex LOL, did you loose your permagrin yet?

 

[sirkdev]

Start from scratch,

Interesting tips thanks for the link

 

[takethebounce]

The Pro chassis suspension is going to be stiffer than a Doo or Cat. I tend to believe they work better on the stiffer side as they respond to rider input quicker.

When I went to the Pro chassis from a Doo I wasn't sure I would like it but I forced myself to get used to it. I honestly hated the Pro chassis when it came out in '11. I thought it was stupid. I couldn't ride it, it was goofy, it would buck me off, I didn't have control, my shoulders hurt, it smelled funny, I swear it even called me names. After a few rides I started to realize what I was witnessing with other guys who were riding them was true, it did everything I wanted it do and I was a better rider because of it. So its not without a little learning curve.

The Pro is very forgiving compared to some of the other sleds. You have a much larger area on the boards you can ride. If anything you can stand much further back, when washed out the Pro will continue to move forward as long as you hold the throttle. They also respond a lot better to throttle. If on the flat in deeper snow they will pop unlike your previous tank when you let off the throttle. Yes, let off the throttle to get the sled to pop on top of the snow. The Pro also likes to be ridden on the spindle. Start by sidehilling everything you can to get a feel for it. The body panels angle to the snow should basically match the grade.

Nothing will replace seat time though and in the end, maybe its just not the sled for you. And hook the sway bar back up.

 

[Octanee]

thanks everybody for the info and the links/suggestions. LUND I have not lost it yet, I think it's increased, it feels and pulls like the power of the apex but is light like the rest of the 2 strokes, Starting to ride more aggressive now already.

And I'm thinking I do need to just ride it, as well as try to soften the rear suspension, The rear shock is stiff and the MTN tamer is set to limit the amount that rear suspension will sag under power, basically set up to keep the nose down while climbing a chute, and it'll do that well. I'm thinking if I relax the rear limiter block It will let it lift the ski's more out of the snow more and perhaps that will help solve my issue with it wanting to kick back over. But hey time will tell

 

[Lund]

Haha, awesome

 

[pistoncontracting]

The Pro chassis suspension is going to be stiffer than a Doo or Cat. I tend to believe they work better on the stiffer side as they respond to rider input quicker.

When I went to the Pro chassis from a Doo I wasn't sure I would like it but I forced myself to get used to it. I honestly hated the Pro chassis when it came out in '11. I thought it was stupid. I couldn't ride it, it was goofy, it would buck me off, I didn't have control, my shoulders hurt, it smelled funny, I swear it even called me names. After a few rides I started to realize what I was witnessing with other guys who were riding them was true, it did everything I wanted it do and I was a better rider because of it. So its not without a little learning curve.

The Pro is very forgiving compared to some of the other sleds. You have a much larger area on the boards you can ride. If anything you can stand much further back, when washed out the Pro will continue to move forward as long as you hold the throttle. They also respond a lot better to throttle. If on the flat in deeper snow they will pop unlike your previous tank when you let off the throttle. Yes, let off the throttle to get the sled to pop on top of the snow. The Pro also likes to be ridden on the spindle. Start by sidehilling everything you can to get a feel for it. The body panels angle to the snow should basically match the grade.

Nothing will replace seat time though and in the end, maybe its just not the sled for you. And hook the sway bar back up.

For a minute there, I couldn't remember typing this. Then I realized I didn't. That's exactly how I would have described the experience- even the smell part .
I bought a '12, and hated it. Guys in the group hated it, even made fun of it. So, I sold it. And after rethinking, bought a '13. Haven't looked back since.

 

[Octanee]

Alright a bit of a update. The sled is still hard to maneuver and does not respond by turning the ski's they are some aftermarket ones that they trimmed the out side of the ski's from the middle to the back, Upon googling guy's find it makes for better counter-steering and maneuvering in the powder... hmm.... , I had my spare pro 155 out and it responds to turning with the ski's and feels lighter on the front end, sled is completely stock . I noticed while measuring front ends that my boosted pro with the zbros arms is about 1.75" higher, my skid's limiter strap feels fairly loose and is on the loosest adjustment it offers. Maybe the front end being up the extra inch or 2 is causing the very rear of the skid to want to push more on the front ski's?, Just sucks when I go to counter steer and give it some gas to try to get it to flop over it will just steer to the direction of the counter steer and not want to flop!

 

[takethebounce]

Sounds like someone thought they were trying to set up a hill climb sled


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[MarkCos]

It just sounds like u don't know how to sled ??
when u say. I counter steer and can't get it to
pull over ??
maybe get
schooled and schooled 2 vids
with chris buradt and watch those to get
the bases

lol

 

[Frankenytro]

Alright a bit of a update. The sled is still hard to maneuver and does not respond by turning the ski's they are some aftermarket ones that they trimmed the out side of the ski's from the middle to the back, Upon googling guy's find it makes for better counter-steering and maneuvering in the powder... hmm.... , I had my spare pro 155 out and it responds to turning with the ski's and feels lighter on the front end, sled is completely stock . I noticed while measuring front ends that my boosted pro with the zbros arms is about 1.75" higher, my skid's limiter strap feels fairly loose and is on the loosest adjustment it offers. Maybe the front end being up the extra inch or 2 is causing the very rear of the skid to want to push more on the front ski's?, Just sucks when I go to counter steer and give it some gas to try to get it to flop over it will just steer to the direction of the counter steer and not want to flop!

That mod to the ski's sounds to me like the "Carl's cut" mod. It was somewhat popular with the heavy yamis when we were running the 10" wide Simmons skis. Definitely not a needed or even desired mod for a flicky 2 stroke. I don't know about the z bros front end, but when I went to the alt impact 36" kit it lifted the front of my sled as well. It is quite noticeable when I park it beside my 39" barkbuster pro. Just a little food for thought.

 

[Octanee]

It just sounds like u don't know how to sled ??
when u say. I counter steer and can't get it to
pull over ??
maybe get
schooled and schooled 2 vids
with chris buradt and watch those to get
the bases

lol

I'll check in on chris's vids to see if theres any pointers I can learn on to help, I've been sledding a long time, ridden, ski doo's, arctic cats, yamaha... and now the pro lol. This sled was originally set up for chutes, I'm trying to get it to be a nimble fun sled like everybody loves about a "lightweight 2 stroke", I can hop on my yamaha apex which I got setup well, it's at least 100# more, also set up to be a chute slayer and make it side hill and mingle better than what this pro wants to do right now. Hell, my father who is a lightweight guy 140# who rides an xm for it's ease of riding, says my apex feels easier than the pro to initiate and hold a sidehill, so something somewhere isn't right on the sled's geometry and that's what im trying to figure out. It takes all my effort and leaning way out to one side to get it to sidehill and hold a line and it tries its best to flop back down, Going from my apex to any other sled, including my stock pro, I feel like I'm going to roll it upside down when I first switch due to how much less effort it actually takes to get them to flop over.

That mod to the ski's sounds to me like the "Carl's cut" mod. It was somewhat popular with the heavy yamis when we were running the 10" wide Simmons skis. Definitely not a needed or even desired mod for a flicky 2 stroke. I don't know about the z bros front end, but when I went to the alt impact 36" kit it lifted the front of my sled as well. It is quite noticeable when I park it beside my 39" barkbuster pro. Just a little food for thought.

Thanks for the reply, Yeah that's what I got reading into, then some guys with the 2 strokes who did it felt that it helped it bite better when counter steering to get the sled to start a lean, so who knows. did you notice with the front end kit that it made the front end feel heavier? I'd assume though that going to the 36" made it more tippy so maybe if it was the case you wouldn't notice it. I'm thinking to swap my ski's from my stock pro to see if that helps any.

 

[Frankenytro]

I'll check in on chris's vids to see if theres any pointers I can learn on to help, I've been sledding a long time, ridden, ski doo's, arctic cats, yamaha... and now the pro lol. This sled was originally set up for chutes, I'm trying to get it to be a nimble fun sled like everybody loves about a "lightweight 2 stroke", I can hop on my yamaha apex which I got setup well, it's at least 100# more, also set up to be a chute slayer and make it side hill and mingle better than what this pro wants to do right now. Hell, my father who is a lightweight guy 140# who rides an xm for it's ease of riding, says my apex feels easier than the pro to initiate and hold a sidehill, so something somewhere isn't right on the sled's geometry and that's what im trying to figure out. It takes all my effort and leaning way out to one side to get it to sidehill and hold a line and it tries its best to flop back down, Going from my apex to any other sled, including my stock pro, I feel like I'm going to roll it upside down when I first switch due to how much less effort it actually takes to get them to flop over.



Thanks for the reply, Yeah that's what I got reading into, then some guys with the 2 strokes who did it felt that it helped it bite better when counter steering to get the sled to start a lean, so who knows. did you notice with the front end kit that it made the front end feel heavier? I'd assume though that going to the 36" made it more tippy so maybe if it was the case you wouldn't notice it. I'm thinking to swap my ski's from my stock pro to see if that helps any.

I would certainly throw a stock set of skis up front and give it a whirl. As for my front end, the whole time I ran 39" I ran with sway bar and loved it. Since going 36" I have thrown clickers on it with a little extra preload in the springs and have removed the sway bar. Trail manners are less favourable but the trail is only to get me up and down. I will sacrifice trailability any day to accommodate ease on the hill.

 

[24V E30]

I'm no expert on sled suspension but it definatly sounds like yours is not setup properly or setup to go straight only. What shocks are on the sled currently?

I have an assault and it has 40" ski stance and I go everywhere my friends go on their pros, it took a bit of adjusting to get it to work well for me but once setup it gets on edge and stays there with very little effort.

What i I did is loosend the ski spring adjuster all the way so the springs were loose, then tighten the adjuster just enough to hold the spring from rattling, then added one or two full turns on the spring adjuster just to have a bit of preload on the ski shocks.

Front track shock, this is the pivot point of the sled, to soft it will be hard to pull on edge, to much preload (stiff) will make it pull on edge easy but it won't let the skid come into the tunnel there for trenching a lot. I set mine to what the owners manual suggested for my riding weight and tweaked it from there, I think I went 1/4 turn softer then suggested and was happy with that.

Rear track shock I setup to what the manual suggested and left it there.


If your still on stock shocks then maybe try setting them back to stock settings and go from there.

 

[Octanee]

I would certainly throw a stock set of skis up front and give it a whirl. As for my front end, the whole time I ran 39" I ran with sway bar and loved it. Since going 36" I have thrown clickers on it with a little extra preload in the springs and have removed the sway bar. Trail manners are less favourable but the trail is only to get me up and down. I will sacrifice trailability any day to accommodate ease on the hill.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking to try. I'm sure a 36" front end would help a lot, but that wont be in my budget this year lol. Taking the sway bar off helped with not getting bucked out of sidehill when hitting somebody's rut, and for the speed's I travel i didnt notice the lack of sway bar, the 36" you would for sure but I'd also sacrifice the trail speed a bit for handling in the fluff on the mountain.

I'm no expert on sled suspension but it definatly sounds like yours is not setup properly or setup to go straight only. What shocks are on the sled currently?

I have an assault and it has 40" ski stance and I go everywhere my friends go on their pros, it took a bit of adjusting to get it to work well for me but once setup it gets on edge and stays there with very little effort.

What i I did is loosend the ski spring adjuster all the way so the springs were loose, then tighten the adjuster just enough to hold the spring from rattling, then added one or two full turns on the spring adjuster just to have a bit of preload on the ski shocks.

Front track shock, this is the pivot point of the sled, to soft it will be hard to pull on edge, to much preload (stiff) will make it pull on edge easy but it won't let the skid come into the tunnel there for trenching a lot. I set mine to what the owners manual suggested for my riding weight and tweaked it from there, I think I went 1/4 turn softer then suggested and was happy with that.

Rear track shock I setup to what the manual suggested and left it there.


If your still on stock shocks then maybe try setting them back to stock settings and go from there.

thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, or for better or worse haha, they are Zbros EXIT shocks. also a timbersled skid. So far I backed off the limiter block on the rear back which will let the rear suspension compress more to let the ski's lift, that helped. I softened the rear shock as well a bunch, ride wise it helped with the bumps so far, it was certainly too stiff, It gave me the bucking sensation from the rear end of the sled while down the trail, And the front shock in the rear skid is soft, It's tensioned as such that a turn looser and the spring will be rattling. MY front shocks utilize like 3 different springs put together with a C-clip on the top that adjusts up and down, I think it will have more control on the ride height side of things, It's all the way on the bottom but the springs sag a ton, I'd say when the sled rests and I lift the front end i have 40% travel up and 60% downward. It's also pretty soft, softer than my spare PRO RMK for sure.

I'm definitely scratching my head here, Tried my usual stuff so far which makes a big difference and sled hasn't responded, so up next is the ski's.

 

[24V E30]

Damn, well swapping over to the stock gripper skis is worth a shot.

Is there adjustable dampening or rebound on those shocks?

Maybe try the next stiffer position for preload on the ski's, to soft can mess with handling as well from what I have read online. Also try adding a 1/2 to full turn on the front track shock preload, that may help with getting the sled on edge. Sounds like everything but the rear track shock is at the softest settings, worth a try to go a bit stiffer and see if it gets better or worse.

 

[Octanee]

Damn, well swapping over to the stock gripper skis is worth a shot.

Is there adjustable dampening or rebound on those shocks?

Maybe try the next stiffer position for preload on the ski's, to soft can mess with handling as well from what I have read online. Also try adding a 1/2 to full turn on the front track shock preload, that may help with getting the sled on edge. Sounds like everything but the rear track shock is at the softest settings, worth a try to go a bit stiffer and see if it gets better or worse.

There is adjustable dampening yes, Theres an air chamber on them I'm unsure of how to adjust with the rest of the settings, I haven't gotten a hold of the company to ask about, their introduction video for the shocks and adjustments don't speak of the chamber adjustment, Otherwise the valving adjustment is just a knob you turn, which will make them feel rock hard or let the spring do it's thing more. And I'll try stiffening that rear shock up a bit as well. I did notice on my front end sometimes when I'm going downhill either straight or an angle and want to get it on it's side to start going around and back up that the front end will sometimes dig right down like the Ski's gone right under but it's causing a ton of resistance almost like it hooks on something, I got to really give er some throttle to get it to start moving and pop back up, Never had another sled do that before so again could be the ski's I'll be trying the stock ones this weekend. Thanks for the tips.