raising a shop 8'??

[higher n you]

i have a 30'x60' garage 8' high. i want to raise the garage 8' higher to accomodate a 14' door. is it possible to crane roof, add 8' wall section and reinstall existing roof? or is it cheaper to add 8' and install new trusses? any other inexpensive suggestions?

 

[Scrambled]

Jack it up and then biuld then lower.

 

[maxwell]

best bet would be to either remove and reuse the old trusses or buy new ones and reinstall them.

chances of you being able to lift that existing roof system in one peice is highly unlikely.

especially while you add 8'. even if you had the wall sections prebuilt the crane would be on site for 8+ hours. and for a crane reasonable enough to lift that existing roof section you would be looking at around 200$ an hour easy.

why not take off the roof.

either rebuild or start fresh.

then add your wall sections.

and get the crane for an hour to fly your new roof on. or build it up there.

also have you considered structural stability?

8' is no big deal..wooden structure i assume? but when moving to 16' you are going to be getting extra buckling forces on the structure.

not to mention 50% more windload on the structure.

what is your plan for stabilizing this structure?

it will require alot of blocking to stop the studs from buckling.

but some other means of structure to compinsate for the extra horizonal shear applied with the wind loading.

possible some steel cross bracing might be the solution ( top to bottom accross the wall @ 45 degrees )

 

[Longhorn]

Snow load needs to be considered as well...

Not sure if you are in town or out but even most municipalitys will want a building permit and snow load will change with height, which if severe enough will eliminate the ability to use the existing trusses.

 

[maxwell]

it may or may not eliminate the trusses but it will also effect if the existing studs are strong enough for the snowload at the new height.

this is a 50% increase we are talking about here its pretty substantial.

ill look at my code tommorow morning and see what i come up with

 

[mach123]

I agree adding another 8ft is not the same as building a new 16ft wall at all.

 

[blastoff]

not a good idea I cant see that flying a inspection with out some engineer report or something

 

[higher n you]

it is a wood structure 2x4 framing. definately getting a permit! quoted 10k min to raise entire structure, plus moving elec and gas! also priced out all new trusses and header for door is $2900. i was thinking on stacking the two walls and using plywood inside and out to stabilize buckling, also every 8' a 16' 4x4 sistered to the wall, or is it wiser to remove top plate of existing wall and run a full 16' stud?
insurace is paying for new shingles and 1/2 of the siding(summer hail storm). with this in mind i would like to budget for 10k or less for entire job, is this possible?

 

[snochuk]

You would need about a 300Ton crane for the reach alone to do a building lift of that size and the rate for us as a regular customer is $560/hr. Regular price is about $750/hr. Some creative spreader bar rigging would also be needed. They will not likely rent a crane for this type of job without including their rigger...another $70/hr.
I would suggest having a building mover jack the building 9', cross brace to the inside for wind load while you install your PREBUILT walls. Drop building and then you will have to splice your new wall section to your old upper section of wall. I would seek an engineers advice if not a stamped drawing for future insurance puposes. A 2x6 on the flat to make a "T" post out of every second wall stud -full hieght- will probably suffice. A large task but not as costly as a new shop.
You will want to have someone with some experience help you preplan the intire job so you have no "oops delays" once you have your building jacked as this will be greatest point of risk during the job. Exterior wall finishes can be completed later so fit up is made easier.
Preplan,preplan,preplan and good luck.

 

[maxwell]

lifting a building 8-10ft will not be cheap by any means. it will take alot of time and equiptment to jack it that high.

if going that route maybe building the first 8' wall sections out of 2x6 might be another idea

 

[Cyle]

What do you plan to do in the shop? A 2x4 wall isn't much for insulation if you are planning to do much for heating compared to a 2x6 wall. It wouldn't be cheap to add that kind of height. I mean, if you were only going 2' it's simple and cheap but 8' sure isn't.

You might almost be better off salvaging what you can from the roof and building all new walls. Really, if you are doing the work yourself, lumber is cheap. You could build a 2x6 16' wall as quick as a 8' to add on top. Also be a lot better off in the end.

You could even get a smaller crane and split the roof into like 3 sections to remove it, and wouldn't even have much work putting it back on.

Lifting off the whole roof in one section would never happen for a few reasons, way to big of reach needed, and you'd destroy the roof trying to strap it well enough to not fall apart.

 

[snochuk]

Well you have lots of options on what to do including building a new smaller shop to store your high stuff and leave the original shop alone. Price options, chose what's best for you then preplan, preplan, preplan your project! Good luck and fill your storage space with toys!!

 

[maxwell]

think of how many toys you can stack with 16ft of ceiling!

 

[powerteker]

I would get a picker and lift the roof off. I know it can be done because I've done it before....and they got loaded onto trucks! I think this is the safe way to do it

 

[higher n you]

lots of good ideas! the reason for for the height is so i can do rv repairs from home. good idea to lift roof in several sections! i now have a contractor coming out tommorow as i think i may be getting over my experience level here. i once was a carpenter but not an engineeer. the county won't allow me to build another shop so this is my only choice.

 

[morris]

it
can not be done 16foot walls require 2x8 studding not 2x4 i built one recently
and engineer wanted 2x8 studding complete with blocking existing trusses
should work

 

[Cyle]

it
can not be done 16foot walls require 2x8 studding not 2x4 i built one recently
and engineer wanted 2x8 studding complete with blocking existing trusses
should work

Sorry to inform you of this, but "engineer" is a term used to loosely. To many just look at code and say you need this. They have NO knowledge of building materials or what it takes, all they know is how to read a book. It depends a lot on what you are doing for the roof also. But to say you need 2x8 for a 16' wall is incorrect.

And a picker picking it off? I will bet you that roof weights as much or MORE then most pickers COMPLETE truck.

 

[2manykids]

If and when you get this done, they say where there is a will there is a way. Could you post pics of how it is done, i am tossing the thought around of having this done to my house. Thanks

 

[snochuk]

Sorry to inform you of this, but "engineer" is a term used to loosely. To many just look at code and say you need this. They have NO knowledge of building materials or what it takes, all they know is how to read a book. It depends a lot on what you are doing for the roof also. But to say you need 2x8 for a 16' wall is incorrect.

And a picker picking it off? I will bet you that roof weights as much or MORE then most pickers COMPLETE truck.

Unfortunatly you must follow codes, kinda like the law if you want insurance. If your working on some one elses RV and buliding colapses in wind storm you could have your insurance voided if you are found to have building code violations in your structure. There are ways to strengthen walls and use smaller studs than the code book allows but it usually requires a lot of extra work bracing/blocking walls. The guidelines are there for a reason.

 

[maxwell]

Sorry to inform you of this, but "engineer" is a term used to loosely. To many just look at code and say you need this. They have NO knowledge of building materials or what it takes, all they know is how to read a book. It depends a lot on what you are doing for the roof also. But to say you need 2x8 for a 16' wall is incorrect.

And a picker picking it off? I will bet you that roof weights as much or MORE then most pickers COMPLETE truck.

LOL

ok

let me just inform you of the design process

after an idea has been created the engineer will look at the structure and come up with a material design. FROM THE ROOF DOWN.

first the live and dead loads are calculated on the structure this includes people, snow rain, wind etc. then they are companioned ( added ) together using certain formulas. adding isnt exactly correct because the chances of having the maximum snow load and the maximum rain and wind load happening all at the same time is unlikely. that is why we call it companion loading.

then these numbers are FACTORED by a factor of safety for you and for me.

once the final total factored load on the structure has been determined for your area the process begins at truss selection and doing a truss analysis. that means calculateing the forces in EACH member of the truss. fron their we select appropriate sheathing and spacing and if h clips will be required etc etc. it then moves down to the stud walls and the spacing and material is selected FROM PREDETERMINED TABLES. ( these tables are created from years of data and testing of materials that have failed in real life situations. they say the code is written in blood because each year it grows from past mistakes....probly from someone who did it your way? ) the tables say how long they can be what material they can be and the spacing. and like SNOWCHUK said. things like adding blocking, bridging and all sorts of little things like that will enable you sometimes to move down to a smaller material. IE. 2x8 stud wall vs 2x6 stud wall with full blocking. also adding a structural sheathing to the outside will also allow you to do longer and more widely spaced studs. lots of little tricks.

alot goes into a proper design. and GUESS WHAT. the "engineer" is referncing the AB code the WHOLE time because it NEEDS to connform. for him, the owner and the province. also the insurance like mentioned!!

this is how people run into alot of problems when doing renovations and new structures. its people with a poor attitude towards proper design. since they have been doing it their whole life. good on ya but when doing a project you cant just look at it and say. well it looks like 2x6s will do just fine. maybe? maybe not? who wants to take that chance when everything they own in that structure is up for chance.

the CODE and a proper design are GOD when it comes to alberta construction. poor fly by night contractors are a nightmare.

end of rant
LOLOL



also...an engineer or designer have probly forgotten more about a 2x4 and its charactaristics than you will ever know.

whats the ultimate moisture range for a 2x4 in order to reduce shrinkage in the structure cyle? how much will a 16' stud and 4 plates shrink and expand from top to bottom? what are you doing to compensate for this?

he also said the picker truck would be used to lift the roof off in sections. not complete.