Kanedog discovers a Clutching CATastrophy, again. Pics!

[kanedog]

It appears that the cover bolts are different. Maybe they are a different/stronger grade. It could be a good improvement. There is 6 lines and it looks like the letters h and k. Any bolt connoisseurs care to comment?

Speaking of balancing holes, check out this balancing hole job. The circled hole is drilled right into the edge of the cover, compromising the structural integrity of the cover.
But wait, it gets better. This is the promotional pic that Team uses to promote the product. Yes, it’s their promotional pic! Can you believe it? It’s like when you see something so fkd up and you look around and ask “is anyone seeing this?” It’s so messed up you can only laugh.

 

[smokindave]

It appears that the cover bolts are different. Maybe they are a different/stronger grade.

The bolts are different from all the pictures posted.
I did put a magnet on them and it stuck.

 

[smokindave]

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The bolts are different from all the pictures posted.
I did put a magnet on them and it stuck.

Going by the markings on the bolt head the 2020 is using grade 8.
The other pics looks like a metric 10.9.
Similar tensile strength.
Can anyone confirm what bolt is in the pre 20?

 

[NoBrakes!]

I would like to know why some have no balance holes and some do... what piece are they trying to balance with the cover drilling?

 

[kanedog]

I would like to know why some have no balance holes and some do... what piece are they trying to balance with the cover drilling?

They may be trying to balance the whole clutch. There has to be tolerances built into the cover bushing and the big roller bearing. The movement on the big roller bearing and the clearance on the moveable bushing that goes over the big roller bearing cause play on the assembly. The cover bushing has play in it to. Combine all the movement and it’s almost impossible to balance. Hence, a ton of holes.

If the clutch is removed from the balancer and then put back on, you may have to drill holes on the opposite side now. It can be a battle that can’t be won depending on the tolerances.

I guess the best would be to balance the stationary by itself, then balance the moveable on a tight tolerance shaft specific for balancing then assemble everything. This costs too much labor though so it’s doubtful a factory would do that. Team just blows big ass holes all Willy Nilly and calls it good.

The new roller is a good thing for engagement but not the best for balancing. The big moveable bushing is too thin and the clearances permits a rocking loose type action of the moveable assembly.

 

[niner]

Mine only has 5 holes drilled in it so maybe I got a good one. Only have about 1/8” left of the felt marker with stock gearing. See if the 52 tooth gear will wipe that off.

 

[LMLCHEVY]

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This is my clutch on my zero km 2020 Hardcore.
Built June 2019 with a bunch of balancing holes.
I will be keeping my eye on it.

They must have gotten better at it or something as time went on. Mine only has 4 holes. Built in August 2019. Grade 8 bolts. Notice mine has a different p/n though?

 

[kanedog]

They must have gotten better at it or something as time went on. Mine only has 4 holes. Built in August 2019. Grade 8 bolts. Notice mine has a different p/n though?
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Thanks to the crack team effort at Snow and Mud it appears there are four different part numbers for the same clutch within four years. That’s quite a few changes with no info about what is changed. Hopefully they are improved with each different part number. We need to find a current or past disgruntled Team employee and get the inside scoop.

Niners’ 2019 cover bolts have 3 marks and say h k. Lmlchevy’s 2020 has 6 marks and say h k. Looks like hk is the manufacturer, Holo-Krome.

2019 and before had grade 5 bolts. 2020’s have grade 8 bolts. That’s pretty chincy saving 5cents a bolt by using grade5 bolts instead of grade8 on a structural component. Smh.

Learn from this multi year debacle. Kanedog says-Never cheap out on clutches.

Here is a good strategy for Cat sleds under warranty. Keep a close eye on the primary clutch and ride until cracks appear. Avoid paying $1,000+ for a new clutch by obtaining a warranty replacement before the one year warranty expires. Now you have a brand new clutch to begin your non warranty second year of riding. At this point, install a skookum clutch cover on the new replacement and ride worry free from there.

I don’t recommend doing the following so don’t do it. It is very bad and wrong. Let’s say your sled is out of warranty and now you need a $1,000 clutch. You can install your cracked clutch on your buddies Alpha that has warranty. Swap the cover and cover bolts so it appears the clutch belongs to your buddies sled. Take sled in to dealer. Get a new clutch, high five your buddy and sled with happiness. Rinse and repeat as required.

This is illegal and you might go jail for many years so don’t do it. We don’t want to overflow the jails with clutch criminals.

.

Here is a failed grade 5 bolt from the a Team clutch. Cause-cover and tower flexing, harmonics. Hence the bolt upgrade.

 

[lilduke]

if your clutch explodes after warranty is up, seems to me they should still be fixing that and just be glad it didn't kill you.

 

[skegpro]

if your clutch explodes after warranty is up, seems to me they should still be fixing that and just be glad it didn't kill you.

If they don't, pictures on their FB page

 

[skegpro]

I would like to know why some have no balance holes and some do... what piece are they trying to balance with the cover drilling?

The towers and sheaves must be so outta balance that they use the cover to compensate.

That's why I am reluctant to put on a aftermarket cover without getting it balanced.

If I have to do a whole new clutch on my dime, might just be something else.

 

[lilduke]

The towers and sheaves must be so outta balance that they use the cover to compensate.

That's why I am reluctant to put on a aftermarket cover without getting it balanced.

If I have to do a whole new clutch on my dime, might just be something else.

might be better than taking shrapnel in the leg?

maybe mm can put a p85 on there for you.

 

[skegpro]

might be better than taking shrapnel in the leg?

maybe mm can put a p85 on there for you.

If they don't warranty this clutch I will be asking for a letter stating that the have evaluated the clutch and it is safe to run.

I will own arctic cat if anything ends up in my leg.

 

[Slamnek]

I just checked my 18 Mountain cat and it’s still mint. 600km I’m very relieved, I’m going to revy this weekend

 

[kanedog]

I will own arctic cat if anything ends up in my leg.

I believe there is enough evidence in this thread for you to do just that.

 

[skegpro]

.......

 

[Caper11]

At least it held together! Lol
Its just rubber sandwiched inbetween to metal plates.

 

[cattechsummitrider]

Does anyone have pictures of the inside of the clutch? Or do you see any balance marks on the inside sheaves of the clutch or someplace weight was even added?
I am wondering if Team is just Static balancing their clutches ( Balancing one end to balance the whole clutch ) Or if they dynamic balance the clutches ( Balance both ends of the clutch)
If they just static balance the clutch they are trying to balance a clutch just off of the outside cover and it is the inside sheave that is out of balance that creates bad internal forces ( Two sides" fighting") on the clutch
If they dynamic balance the clutch it will not have the two sides "fighting" each other
There will be drill marks or something added for weight on the inside sheave to balance it,,

 

[JMCX]

Does anyone have pictures of the inside of the clutch? Or do you see any balance marks on the inside sheaves of the clutch or someplace weight was even added?
I am wondering if Team is just Static balancing their clutches ( Balancing one end to balance the whole clutch ) Or if they dynamic balance the clutches ( Balance both ends of the clutch)
If they just static balance the clutch they are trying to balance a clutch just off of the outside cover and it is the inside sheave that is out of balance that creates bad internal forces ( Two sides" fighting") on the clutch
If they dynamic balance the clutch it will not have the two sides "fighting" each other
There will be drill marks or something added for weight on the inside sheave to balance it,,

Look at any Cat or Polaris clutch and you will see a few drill holes in the outer circumference of the inner sheave and the ones like seen in this thread on the cover.

Are components individually balanced then assembled, individually balanced, assembled then final balanced or assembled then balanced. My guess would be the last. I would also guess the cover is getting carved up to correct imbalance in the much heavier movable sheave and spider.

 

[pfi572]

Unless it’s BRP ? They build a wobble into the clutch .