Differences in riding style between ZX and XP

[jpgmtech]

This may be completely useless information to anyone who doesn't really care about the old sleds... but it's a good brain exercise for me to understand chassis dynamics.

We've been trying to define some of the more subtle effects of the dramatic change in rider position, in the context of mountain riding. I'm sure we are not the first to talk about it, but we find it interesting as I am still running an old-school ZX. (not hardly stock though...)

1) Steep hillclimb seems to pull more on the arms/shoulders when riding a XP, rider is standing with feet farther forward and more erect, causing more of his/her weight to be supported by the arms. On a ZX, feet tend to be farther back, and a 6' rider tends to be crouched, knees bent, more of the mass carried by the feet.
2) When the XP rolls right/left, the handlebars travel through a longer arc for the same degree of rotation as the ZX. That's simply because the bars are higher. On a hillclimb, the result is that my whole body swings back and forth a bit, maybe because I am supporting more of my weight with my arms, and certainly because the bars are themselves travelling a longer roll arc. On the ZX, it seems like I can let the sled roll under me and keep my body position more nuetral, allowing me to input correction with both my feet and arms instead of swinging and twisting my whole body or stepping from one running board to the other.
3) Another factor in all of this is that this particular ZX has been put on an extreme diet - it weighs 500 lbs fully fuelled, which means it's tank-empty weight is around 435 lbs. Less mass to wrestle means it's easier for my body mass (230lbs geared up) to pull it back in line.

A little video here of a comparable hillclimb, one of many that I have watched. Note my Dad riding the XP at 0:20 he gets a little wiggle and uses his whole body to correct for it. At 0:53 I get a major wiggle/bump from bouncing through a big stuck hole and the whole sled dances underneath me but my body hardly moves. I let the sled dance and bring it in with minor inputs from my legs/arms.

Busting Cornice, Mt. Milton, Alan Creek - YouTube

I've been trying to figure out why the old ZX seems so stable to ride compared to an XP. Now I think the ZX is actually less stable on the hillclimb, I'm just able to correct it more easily.

 

[the_real_wild1]

I find the opposite. Compare my freeride to my zx. Stuff I hit with the freeride and glide over I get tossed off with the zx.

 

[teeroy]

I find myself feet way back on my xp and controlling it by shifting weight to one side or the other, riser is angled back a bit. if anything my old zx was more upper body work than the xp, I think because I always had to hunch forward. could have had taller risers I guess

 

[teeroy]

I find the opposite. Compare my freeride to my zx. Stuff I hit with the freeride and glide over I get tossed off with the zx.

that's the other thing, seemed like when things would get a little sideways in the air with the zx you would have to bail. the xp is a lot more forgiving in that regard, responds well to "english" in flight

 

[jpgmtech]

I find the opposite. Compare my freeride to my zx. Stuff I hit with the freeride and glide over I get tossed off with the zx.

I don't doubt it one bit. This particular ZX is a way different animal than a stock or near-stock one though, the diet made a major difference in the handling (and everything else for that matter). However I don't think it's all that stable, just easier for me to wrestle given how my brain has been programmed for old-school riding all these years.

Dad's XP in that video is modded up a bit, 174x16x3" track, and he has the front limiter pulled in a bit. It is actually quite stable in the steep stuff. However I've rode a few other shorter tracked XP's that don't feel nearly as stable as his. And I have a harder time with them than the old ZX.

 

[jpgmtech]

I find myself feet way back on my xp and controlling it by shifting weight to one side or the other, riser is angled back a bit. if anything my old zx was more upper body work than the xp, I think because I always had to hunch forward. could have had taller risers I guess

Okay, this is going to sound really strange, but I had a 6" riser on that ZX and dropped it down to a 2.5" riser. To me, it handles better in the steep stuff. Maybe I'm a wierdo or something, but I certainly wouldn't consider myself a novice rider.

Interesting that you put your riser back. Most XP's I've rode have the riser angled forward (except for Dad's) and I always found that way awkward.

 

[the_real_wild1]

It all depends on what you are comfortable on. I always feel cramped on my zx. Even with the boss seat and 5" riser. The narrow boards dont help me neither. If it doesnt sell I am planning to put it under the knife and try to get it in the same riding position as the freeride, of course it wont be rider foward.

 

[E to the v]

I woul agree that the zx is a more neutral feeling sled. I like the way they handle when off the gas. I know the rev/xp front ends are lighter, but they dont feel that way while cutting a sidehill downhill(coasting)

 

[E to the v]

I Had an 02 800x 151 & it always felt comfy in the air, best jumping/drops sled!
Beat the hell out of it and broke a lot of parts along the way!

 

[snopro]

Personally for me.....if I had to go back to a zx to stay in the sport I would leave the sport. The XP is very comfortable for me and does alot of things better than the ZX. jmo.

 

[teeroy]

I Had an 02 800x 151 & it always felt comfy in the air, best jumping/drops sled!
Beat the hell out of it and broke a lot of parts along the way!

I think they were the toughest 'doo ever made. other than trailing arms and radius rods, it was near bulletproof. I beat the snot outta mine and it just kept on truckin.

 

[E to the v]

Stupid trailing arms, 4 in one season! (along w shocks, springs, torsion bars etc.)

 

[teeroy]

stop running into stuff....lol. even 4 trailing arms, radius rods, and a shock are cheaper to replace than a bent nun like on a rev. worst part was the anchor post after you smash enough trailing arms, once reinforced at that spot you're good for another half dozen trailing arms

 

[snopro]

Here we go again heh Tee? Damn sled bent up on me. Nun, trailing arm,etc,etc. Mountain sleds aren't designed to run into immovable objects. Never have been, never will be.

 

[teeroy]

Here we go again heh Tee? Damn sled bent up on me. Nun, trailing arm,etc,etc. Mountain sleds aren't designed to run into immovable objects. Never have been, never will be.

yeah, used to love the pinecone comments. I've smashed my xp into quite a few trees, albeit smaller ones, and haven't tweaked it yet, it must take a pretty good shot to bend the modules. I've wrote off a few 'doos, so I know what a catastrophic event is like too.

 

[E to the v]

Only 1 from hitting stuff, rest were from drops & landing too flat. Reinforced trailing arm pivots on both sides

 

[E to the v]

Been riding 1000 rts since. Tanks take a lot of abuse

 

[teeroy]

Only 1 from hitting stuff, rest were from drops & landing too flat. Reinforced trailing arm pivots on both sides

well, I don't know what you're landing on....only thing that ever bent on mine were running boards from hard landings. it went thru plenty of big drops and flat landings from october of 2000 until spring 2007. the only way there is enough force to knock the anchor posts out are from frontal impact or side twist. the front suspension cycles up high enough that the pan takes the impact when the travel runs out. only way I could see damaging the front suspension would be from landing so that force is applied from any other angle than straight up and down, like landing off camber on hard snow. then you can pretty much expect damage, nothing will take that kind of abuse. I still believe the zx will withstand those kind of forces better than my xp would.

 

[Summiteer]

Should buy a pro, they're really light and almost indestructible( I understand it's in the glue)..........And flickable, did I mention very flickable?:d

 

[jpgmtech]

Tagged a rock under the snow this year myself with the ZX, except I'm running aluminum trailing arms and radius rods. Made 2 more rods in the shop and rebuilt the trailing arm, good to go. One thing about aluminum front end, never knocks out the anchor post! I've watched the boys I ride with tag trees, roll the XP's and they seem to hold up pretty good under that kind of abuse, LOL. Never hit a tree myself yet (this season) but there are a couple up on Alan Creek with my nametag on them...

Funny story, missed about 2 seasons of mountain riding (sucked...) a few years ago. The next sled I got on was a borrowed REV, a mod job that needed a bit more setup work. I wore myself out trying to climb that thing and gave up at lunch, thinking that I must have really fell out of riding shape. Almost thought of giving up, couldn't hold that thing on the hill for the life of me. That thing threw me down the hill more than once when I got into the steep rutted stuff. Then my brother took a break and let me tinker around on the ZX a bit - felt like a revelation! Everything came rushing back and I was banging serious hills again. Then I climbed back on the REV determined to rule that thing - did better but I realized I had to completely change my riding style to keep that thing in the hill. Since then I've run a Pro and a few different stock/mod XP's, still feel most comfortable on the ZX. I'm so old-school at times it's painful, I know... the boys bash me about it all the time!