blowing belts ? burning too much oil ? could be related !

[ktmsx350f]

Drama queen reporting: ignore everything I said in this thread about making my belt last longer. Blew one today with 4 rides on it.

Carry on.


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why not try the mtntk blow hole until a real fix for clutching come out. The blow hole is the same as extra venting only takes it to the next levle. it works extreamly good and removes alot of heat. When a real fix actully comes out 100% get it but I see no reason that evacuating heat could be bad. the blow hole is aboput the same price as one belt ya dealers are warrentying some but to me my confinence in the sled and what i could do would be way down knowing abelt could blow at any time or i could go through multiple belts and have to borrow a belt to get off the mountain.

 

[Dazzler]

But what was the Maximum Belt Temperature??? Belts are not a warranty item. Whatever problem you need to figure out what it is. Getting the right equipment is less expensive than the price of two belts, so the price cannot be an excuse.

Daag44, I would guess you work for BRP?
You cannot be serious with your statement "whatever problem you need to figure out what it is" on a 4 month old machine? Getting the right equipment? really???? They bought a new machine!!!
Do you assume joe public has the means to check belt temps, or the tool box, or the mechanical background to resolve the ongoing issues on the so called "odd problematic" G4 850? If the dealer cannot resolve it, and BRP claim a " fix " for the 18's with fans, gearing etc., do you not think at the very least they would put the updates on the couple problem machines?? If it in fact is a fix or just a band aide, but resolves these few issues, it would likely make a lot of the BS go away, and help with the 2018 snow check program wouldn't you think??

 

[deaner]

If a moderator can delete this thread that would be great. Don't wanna spread around false info. Thanks.


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False info?? Seems like pretty good real world info to me

 

[snopro]

But what was the Maximum Belt Temperature??? Belts are not a warranty item. Whatever problem you need to figure out what it is. Getting the right equipment is less expensive than the price of two belts, so the price cannot be an excuse.

Sorry I disagree with this post. Lets look at it from a different perspective. You buy a new $60,000 pickup from GM. Every 200 kms your fan belt breaks? You keep taking it to the dealer for repair and he tells you that he will charge you for the repair because said fan belt is a wear item. The dealer can't figure out why the belt is breaking. GM has a few trucks doing this and is working on a solution but meanwhile every 200 kms you are back to the dealer for your new fan belt. Then a guy on the internet in a truck forum you follow tells you it is your responsibility to figure out why you are blowing up fan belts? See? Does that make sense?

 

[yada]

Sorry I disagree with this post. Lets look at it from a different perspective. You buy a new $60,000 pickup from GM. Every 200 kms your fan belt breaks? You keep taking it to the dealer for repair and he tells you that he will charge you for the repair because said fan belt is a wear item. The dealer can't figure out why the belt is breaking. GM has a few trucks doing this and is working on a solution but meanwhile every 200 kms you are back to the dealer for your new fan belt. Then a guy on the internet in a truck forum you follow tells you it is your responsibility to figure out why you are blowing up fan belts? See? Does that make sense?

Exactly !!! Well said Snopro !!!

 

[tex78]

Sorry I disagree with this post. Lets look at it from a different perspective. You buy a new $60,000 pickup from GM. Every 200 kms your fan belt breaks? You keep taking it to the dealer for repair and he tells you that he will charge you for the repair because said fan belt is a wear item. The dealer can't figure out why the belt is breaking. GM has a few trucks doing this and is working on a solution but meanwhile every 200 kms you are back to the dealer for your new fan belt. Then a guy on the internet in a truck forum you follow tells you it is your responsibility to figure out why you are blowing up fan belts? See? Does that make sense?

100 %, and too add to this, u can leave it at the dealer till the oem gets it figured out, or take your chances and ride it still




One thing with that tho, gm would get you a rental until it's fixed

That's my one pet peeve with power sports, no loaners and u only have a limited time to ride while snow is on the ground

sent while drinking tea's

 

[drew562]

Exactly !!! Well said Snopro !!! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/rifle-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

[Daag44]

Daag44, I would guess you work for BRP?
You cannot be serious with your statement "whatever problem you need to figure out what it is" on a 4 month old machine? Getting the right equipment? really???? They bought a new machine!!!

Do you assume joe public has the means to check belt temps, or the tool box, or the mechanical background to resolve the ongoing issues on the so called "odd problematic" G4 850?

If the dealer cannot resolve it, and BRP claim a " fix " for the 18's with fans, gearing etc., do you not think at the very least they would put the updates on the couple problem machines?? If it in fact is a fix or just a band aide, but resolves these few issues, it would likely make a lot of the BS go away, and help with the 2018 snow check program wouldn't you think??

If I did work for BRP then I would be fired lol Manufacturing Employees cannot post on forums, at least not without prior approval. There is a lot of fun paperwork that binds you from divulging trade secrets or speaking publicly on behalf of a company.

 

[Lund]

If I did work for BRP then I would be fired lol Manufacturing Employees cannot post on forums, at least not without prior approval. There is a lot of fun paperwork that binds you from divulging trade secrets or speaking publicly on behalf of a company.

Sounds to me you just like to spread BS around such as this from one of your post that is a complete LIE. If your going to spread rumors at least have your facts straight. The highlighted portion is completely untrue. So i'm hoping the peeps on here understand your character and are aware.
I apologize to the OP for this post. I tried to PM this dude on this numerous times but he chooses to avoid the subject.
An apology sure would be appreciated for slandering.

YOUR POST BELOW
These are warranty claim that needs to be addressed quickly by BRP before more correction methods start sprouting without knowing the underlying problem. You should know about this since you sent all Summit RT owners to perform electrical upgrades which were not necessary and without knowing the actual problem,only that one guy posted that BRP had messed-up the electrical which they hadn't. So I can understand why you would take a personal interest to ensuring no one jumps to a conclusion and the actual problem is known.

 

[Daag44]

There is always another step that can taken

Sorry I disagree with this post. Lets look at it from a different perspective. You buy a new $60,000 pickup from GM. Every 200 kms your fan belt breaks? You keep taking it to the dealer for repair and he tells you that he will charge you for the repair because said fan belt is a wear item. The dealer can't figure out why the belt is breaking. GM has a few trucks doing this and is working on a solution but meanwhile every 200 kms you are back to the dealer for your new fan belt. Then a guy on the internet in a truck forum you follow tells you it is your responsibility to figure out why you are blowing up fan belts? See? Does that make sense?

Help me out to understand how suggesting to find the problem and get it fixed would not make sense? First we don't know the reason why he is blowing belts other than likely the belt is getting too hot. SidewaysInto3rd needs to find the reason(s) why his sled is generating excessive belt temperature.

I understand your point with fan belts, but CVTs on PowerSports is completely different and you will have trouble to find an adequate parallel in the auto industry.

From one post I read that you worked at a BRP dealer, so I will assume that you are a BRP Certified Technician and you have plenty of experience with the issues of Blow Belts which are not isolated to the 850. It is a universal problem with the higher powered ATVs, SbS and Sleds.

Say someone came to your shop tomorrow on Monday morning and says that he has gone through multiple belts on his 850 or any sled for that matter, and this is a sled that you personally did the verification to make sure it was well setup and calibrated for his use, and still is.

What would you tell your customer?

Would you avoid stressing that he needs to focus on what is causing the belt temperature to soar?

You cannot make a warranty claim because the sled is within spec. In this example there is no further adjustment because you did adjust it with the correct calibration. You can't just send your customer off and say sorry, but you did everything that you could.

If your customer does not know why his sled is blowing belts prematurely, then it becomes your responsibility to help him find out why, even if that is only information. You may not be able to make this customer happy, and he may well switch brands anyway. But at the very least you gave him the best possible service.

There is always another step that can taken.

 

[Daag44]

Apology to Lund

Sounds to me you just like to spread BS around such as this from one of your post that is a complete LIE. If your going to spread rumors at least have your facts straight. The highlighted portion is completely untrue. So i'm hoping the peeps on here understand your character and are aware.

I apologize to the OP for this post. I tried to PM this dude on this numerous times but he chooses to avoid the subject.

An apology sure would be appreciated for slandering.

YOUR POST BELOW
These are warranty claim that needs to be addressed quickly by BRP before more correction methods start sprouting without knowing the underlying problem. You should know about this since you sent all Summit RT owners to perform electrical upgrades which were not necessary and without knowing the actual problem,only that one guy posted that BRP had messed-up the electrical which they hadn't. So I can understand why you would take a personal interest to ensuring no one jumps to a conclusion and the actual problem is known.

Lund, I apologize. The portion you highlighted should have been omitted from a public forum. It has not and will not be said over PM or any other forum of communication.

If you want the text to be deleted from all the related posts, we can do this also.

 

[Lund]

Re: Apology to Lund

Lund, I apologize. The portion you highlighted should have been omitted from a public forum. It has not and will not be said over PM or any other forum of communication.

Thank you, your apology accepted.
I do not know were this electrical upgrade came from but i had heard about it but never recommended it and never did it my self.
Its old history, back to related subject.

 

[Daag44]

History Repeats Itself

Thank you, your apology accepted.
I do not know were this electrical upgrade came from but i had heard about it but never recommended it and never did it my self.
Its old history, back to related subject.

You actually did very good work for the RT Summits. In fact it helped me understand BRP's transition to the mountain segment. Back then your clutch calibration was radically different to harness the full potential of the 1K and to keep it from blowing belts. Funny how Summit RTs were having trouble keeping belts together for the harder riders, and now history is repeating itself.

Thank you for accepting.

 

[snopro]

Re: There is always another step that can taken

Help me out to understand how suggesting to find the problem and get it fixed would not make sense? First we don't know the reason why he is blowing belts other than likely the belt is getting too hot. SidewaysInto3rd needs to find the reason(s) why his sled is generating excessive belt temperature.

I understand your point with fan belts, but CVTs on PowerSports is completely different and you will have trouble to find an adequate parallel in the auto industry.

From one post I read that you worked at a BRP dealer, so I will assume that you are a BRP Certified Technician and you have plenty of experience with the issues of Blow Belts which are not isolated to the 850. It is a universal problem with the higher powered ATVs, SbS and Sleds.

Say someone came to your shop tomorrow on Monday morning and says that he has gone through multiple belts on his 850 or any sled for that matter, and this is a sled that you personally did the verification to make sure it was well setup and calibrated for his use, and still is.

What would you tell your customer?

Would you avoid stressing that he needs to focus on what is causing the belt temperature to soar?

You cannot make a warranty claim because the sled is within spec. In this example there is no further adjustment because you did adjust it with the correct calibration. You can't just send your customer off and say sorry, but you did everything that you could.

If your customer does not know why his sled is blowing belts prematurely, then it becomes your responsibility to help him find out why, even if that is only information. You may not be able to make this customer happy, and he may well switch brands anyway. But at the very least you gave him the best possible service.

There is always another step that can taken.

Let me put it a different way? So customer Bob put 2000 kms of hard mountain riding on his 2016 Summit T3 163 last season. He rides the same areas year after year and always waits for good pow before he fires up his GM and heads west. Bob doesn't blow one belt all year but did pull a small cord on a deep day late in the season so he puts his new spare on and keeps the old belt for a spare to get him off the hill if need be? BRP then builds the biggest baddest new 850 in an all new chassis and even after testing the new Pdrive at the track with all those crazy snocross stars they deem it ready for the rigors of deep powder riding. They even say it is maintenance free for life to show there confidence in it. So Bob buys the new G4 and takes it to his favourite area and after 1000 kms has blown 9 belts? What has changed? The snow? The area? Is that extra 10 hp really that harder on the belt? What has happened then? He is one year older so not likely a more aggressive rider? I think it's something about the new machine. The belts are not cording they are blowing into 100 pieces. Like they would if they had 3000 kms on them, not 100-200? Bobs friend Bill rides side by side with him every weekend. He hasn't blown 1 belt yet? WTF is going on then?

 

[Daag44]

Customer Bob

Let me put it a different way? So customer Bob put 2000 kms of hard mountain riding on his 2016 Summit T3 163 last season. He rides the same areas year after year and always waits for good pow before he fires up his GM and heads west. Bob doesn't blow one belt all year but did pull a small cord on a deep day late in the season so he puts his new spare on and keeps the old belt for a spare to get him off the hill if need be?

BRP then builds the biggest baddest new 850 in an all new chassis and even after testing the new Pdrive at the track with all those crazy snocross stars they deem it ready for the rigors of deep powder riding. They even say it is maintenance free for life to show there confidence in it.

So Bob buys the new G4 and takes it to his favorite area and after 1000 kms has blown 9 belts? What has changed? The snow? The area? Is that extra 10 hp really that harder on the belt? What has happened then? He is one year older so not likely a more aggressive rider? I think it's something about the new machine.

The belts are not cording they are blowing into 100 pieces. Like they would if they had 3000 kms on them, not 100-200? Bobs friend Bill rides side by side with him every weekend. He hasn't blown 1 belt yet? WTF is going on then?

Ok, so Bob just spent say $17,000 on a new 850 on its first production year. There is no way as a BRP Certified Technician that you can use first production year woes as an excuse, especially after BRP has advertised the clutching as being 40% more efficient and require no maintenance. Cross that one out because it won't help.

In this case, after doing the routine troubleshooting you need to start by opening a case file with BRP and provide all the information that you can.

The next thing is to start a topic on your Dealer forum to get as much help as you can from other BRP Certified Technicians. You have access to some of the brightest and most experienced BRP techs.

Those are boxes, meaning that you are working within the confines of what BRP and other techs can do remotely to help. From there it is up to you to begin working outside of those confines and find a solid answer for your customer.

You also have other customers with some having less problems than others. Being an expert in your field, you know clutching and what causes belts to overheat. With that experience you can help Bob figure out what is causing the belt to overheat.

In the mean time that BRP works out the issues experienced by certain owners, you are on top of things and share your finding with other technicians. Eventually you have figured out the cause and the customer has stopped blowing belts every 100km. You went above and beyond for Bob and your other customers. You may have even tried to send the worse sled to the BRP Mountain Test Center, who knows.

In the end the customers do not care what tech is being used to keep the vibrations to a minimum, or that it was tested somewhere or somehow, just that the problem needs to go away fast, and well before blowing 10 belts.

 

[lewey]

Re: Customer Bob

so each and every dealer out there is going to solve the problem for their customers that the manufacturer can't even figure out? or is it owners problem? keeps changing lol

 

[snopro]

Re: Customer Bob

Ok, so Bob just spent say $17,000 on a new 850 on its first production year. There is no way as a BRP Certified Technician that you can use first production year woes as an excuse, especially after BRP has advertised the clutching as being 40% more efficient and require no maintenance. Cross that one out because it won't help.

In this case, after doing the routine troubleshooting you need to start by opening a case file with BRP and provide all the information that you can.

The next thing is to start a topic on your Dealer forum to get as much help as you can from other BRP Certified Technicians. You have access to some of the brightest and most experienced BRP techs.

Those are boxes, meaning that you are working within the confines of what BRP and other techs can do remotely to help. From there it is up to you to begin working outside of those confines and find a solid answer for your customer.

You also have other customers with some having less problems than others. Being an expert in your field, you know clutching and what causes belts to overheat. With that experience you can help Bob figure out what is causing the belt to overheat.

In the mean time that BRP works out the issues experienced by certain owners, you are on top of things and share your finding with other technicians. Eventually you have figured out the cause and the customer has stopped blowing belts every 100km. You went above and beyond for Bob and your other customers. You may have even tried to send the worse sled to the BRP Mountain Test Center, who knows.

In the end the customers do not care what tech is being used to keep the vibrations to a minimum, or that it was tested somewhere or somehow, just that the problem needs to go away fast, and well before blowing 10 belts.

So just asking because the owner of the store I work at is gonna ask me. Who will be paying us for all the work we will be spending time on to solve this issue for BRP? This isn't an isolated issue. All the best master techs on Community have been working on it and to date some things have been found but not a solution that stops this phenomenon. We all know about the PTO motor
mount. No bulletin. We know the secondary spring is to soft. No bulletin. We now know the pdrive inner sheave wobbles. Bulletin.....to come clean. We are also finding out by machining the wobble out that belt temps are reduced dramatically. But don't do it or your warranty is void. How can we help the customer if the manufacturer won't help
us?

 

[sledneck__11]

Re: Customer Bob

What does one have to do to make brp own up to there flaws? I contacted them with my concerns and was told in a polite way to go fly a kite, they say they have no issues and all there updates are product improvements and not needed on the 17s. I really lost a lot of confidence in them, all i can do as a consumer is not buy there product again ive been on skuds for a few years even the 07 and 08 years but that was motors, not electrical clutching bulkheads motor mounts oil leaks i dont trust my 17 850 and that takes alot of fun out of riding

So just asking because the owner of the store I work at is gonna ask me. Who will be paying us for all the work we will be spending time on to solve this issue for BRP? This isn't an isolated issue. All the best master techs on Community have been working on it and to date some things have been found but not a solution that stops this phenomenon. We all know about the PTO motor
mount. No bulletin. We know the secondary spring is to soft. No bulletin. We now know the pdrive inner sheave wobbles. Bulletin.....to come clean. We are also finding out by machining the wobble out that belt temps are reduced dramatically. But don't do it or your warranty is void. How can we help the customer if the manufacturer won't help
us?

 

[adamg]

Re: Customer Bob

I feel like BRP should be paying me by the hour to read this thread. And I don't even own a Doo. This thread is insane. Why do you guys have to type so much? Brevity is the soul of wit. And literally nothing has happened on the 850 front since the wobbly clutch disclosure, so what are you guys even talking about?

 

[kanedog]

What kinda crap lame speech is that Daagdoo? BRP invented the dumb clutch. It will never work. It squeezes and loosens(slips)the belt 8000x a minute. 16,000x a minute if you count both ends 180 degrees of the patent pending blunder of a wobble clutch. The 24thou of wobble is like hitting a bump on the clutch sheave every revolution. The vibrations are so intense that it's causing wires to break and vibrate through any contact with the vibrating metal chassis. The slipping is heating the belt beyond its limit. Vibration is causing motors to eat themselves alive. Damage doesn't come from blowing belts. Any 850 with a wobble clutch is simply a ticking time bomb. Drive down the road with a tire mounted crooked. How long till it tie rods and other parts destroy themselves from vibration. It's not that hard to figure out BRP.

Motors are lasting on avg 2500kms. G4's that have 1200kms have 50% life left in them. BRP has a huge issue. If they replace the clutch with a balanced and true clutch, the motor now has no counterbalance. Now how long will the motors last? Prolly longer than if a wobble clutch was left on. Will this get BRP to the end of a 4 year warranty? Don't know.
What's BRP do? Covers one belt and sends the customer out the door. Nice.
Challenge to BRP-prove me wrong. Don't spin it. Don't attack me. Answer the two questions-Why are belts blowing? Why are motors blowing?
The above is my opinion and belief.