Big Red Cat Skiing at it Again

[kootenaycat]

Big Red Cats, aka Red Shutter Inn is applying to expand their tenure boundaries and construct a lodge and other buildings south of Crowe mountain. Guaranteed this is just a step toward exclusive use of the land as they will not want snowmobiles buzzing past their lodge into that area and it will be situated on a main entry point that we now use.

If you think they shouldn't be allowed to have this application pushed through please write in a comment no matter how short it is.

The link can be found here for the application:



And comments can be posted here:



Thanks,
Kevin Stein
rks442@hotmail.com

 

[frock]

Neither of these links work for me, anybody else?

 

[kootenaycat]

Fixed, should work now for ya!

 

[Modman]

Thanks Kevin. I know you may have been up there in the last little bit, I might have taken a peek as well. Its amazing the network of trails they now have up in the area, I was amazed that they were not already skiing outside of their tenure area. Pretty soon they will be able to access from College Creek as well if they keep pushing farther towards Castlegar. Soon it will be like Baldface, only open to sledders during a limited window of riding time. I'm getting sick of riding only "certain" areas at one limited window of time a year.

I will be forwarding on to a bunch of folks out there as well. Make sure Dan Davidoff sees this, he likes riding there as well (or so I heard).

Help us out folks, we need the sledding community to support this.

 

[woodies]

done deal, whats the best reason to give in your comments?

 

[Modman]

done deal, whats the best reason to give in your comments?

Many sledders use this area and have previously used this area for many years prior to BR cats being allowed tenure. We used to sled there when I had a '78 440 TnT........no one user group should be allowed exclusive rights to an area unless it has restricted access (i.e. no accessible by sled/quad - only by heli/boat/etc - then I can see a case being made for exclusive rights but I still would oppose it). I cannot see a provision for "exclusive right"s in this as Kevin has indicated, however, once they are established in an area, it opens the door for the application.

This area has multiple access points for sleds and is a great sledding area. There is more than enough area for them to ski in the current tenure IMO. I recognize that their clients would like "fresh tracks" on each run, but they do not need to be making one pass on each slope and then moving on.

Here is a pic. To give you an idea of the area they currently occupy, they are running from the black arrow on the left of the pic, on both sides of this ridge (the side facing and the backside), all the way to almost this same distance behind me where I took this picture (you're essentially looking at 1/2 the area).

I don't have a problem with them using the area and I think that it can be agreed to that all user groups have access to the area and if sledders can respect the areas they are skiiing in when they are skiiing in them - great. I have spoken to them, they are nice guys, I don't have anything against them.

That being said, I do not want to see exclusive use of an area, now or in the future.

 

[Mongrol]

The thing that tics me off is that the majority of skiiers for this type of facility are imported tourists. It boils down to visitors having access to areas that exclude locals.

I guess they think "Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine, also".

 

[kootenaycat]

Thanks Kevin. I know you may have been up there in the last little bit, I might have taken a peek as well. Its amazing the network of trails they now have up in the area, I was amazed that they were not already skiing outside of their tenure area. Pretty soon they will be able to access from College Creek as well if they keep pushing farther towards Castlegar. Soon it will be like Baldface, only open to sledders during a limited window of riding time. I'm getting sick of riding only "certain" areas at one limited window of time a year.

I will be forwarding on to a bunch of folks out there as well. Make sure Dan Davidoff sees this, he likes riding there as well (or so I heard).

Help us out folks, we need the sledding community to support this.

We were up there last weekend, not much of a challenge with the spring conditions, but still fun to play and close to home. I can't believe how many km of cat trails they have cut up there. And not even sure that they took any of the timber out, I heard they left it to rot on the ground, even used it as a "platform" to help build the cat trails on the steep section south of Neptune. I'll be back there withe the camera on the quad and foot once the snow's gone to check it out.

They've already got access from Bugle ck to Mackie, sucks now as it used to be a fun challenge in the deep snow picking your way through the trees to the summit. Now there's a 20' wide cat trail. He's obviously optimistic about getting this application approved as Google Earth shows he's cut trails through the trees east of Mackie along the ridge where he'll drop over to College ck.

Already sent it Dan, hopefully he can forward it to all his sledding friends. I too am sick of being told where and when I can sled.

 

[kootenaycat]

done deal, whats the best reason to give in your comments?

Here's my comment I sent in, pretty long winded, I actually found the maximum length of comment you can send in!

Feel free to take ideas from it and expand on them. Even a simple "I am opposed to this application because it restricts my ability to enjoy another piece of crown land that belongs to the public" will do.




I am opposed to Big Red Cats expanding their boundary and constructing

buildings on their existing tenure. My reasons for this are many and

include the following.

There is no need to have a lodge so close to the city of Rossland as it

has adequate accomodation. If the tenure was a lengthy commute away

from any accomodation, I could understand but it is mere minutes by car

from Rossland to their pickup point on the highway.

By constructing a lodge, they will be hurting the economy of the local

towns and business'. The visitors who would have stayed in hotels or

bed and breakfasts and ate meals in restaurants in Rossland or Trail

will now be spending their money at one single business. As well, by

staying at a remote destination, they will not be shopping at any local

business'. In all, I believe the economic benefits of a lodge by BRC

will not be felt by the local business people and in turn the tax

dollars forwarded to the government would also be less.

There are also environmental reasons to consider. The location of the

lodge is in the watershed that supplies water to communities far below

in the valley such as Oasis and Rivervale. With a septic system, there

will always be a risk of contaminants leaching into the water. That

source not only is used by communities but also wildlife and hikers who

may drink from the streams below the lodge. There is also no reason to

allow another building for maintenance of their snow cats as they have

one on Trident road (Claim pit road) near Nancy Greene lake. Myself

and 3 others were at their location where their snowcats are parked and

observed (and photographed) hydraulic fluid pooling on the ground that

was definitely leaking from one of their snow cats. This area is not

far from Blueberry creek which used to be the water source for the

community of Blueberry south of Castlegar.

With the expanded territory they will obviously be building more cat

trails which will be destroying more trees and building summer roads to

access the steep hillsides where necessary. I have snowmobiled on the

cat trails BRC has built in the area and am appalled at the

environmental damage they have already caused. Where there was once

heavily forested land there are now 20' wide trails along ridges and

through old growth forests. Many of these are redundant as they

approach the same high points from multiple directions. As well they

have put trails through old growth forest where they could of made them

through an existing cutblock to lessen the cutting of mature timber.

There is one route BRC made east of the south Neptune ridge where they

cut two swaths through old growth timber because of a poor decision of

building the first trail on too steep of terrain. They built another

trail cutting even more trees to make the trail useable in all snow

conditions. I suspect they have not removed the trees and used them

for any commercial purpose but rather left them to rot lying on the

ground. If you look on Google Earth, the cat trails can easily be

recognized and they lie widely throughout the tenure.

Lastly other recreational groups have been largely affected by the

original tenure of BRC. As a snowmobiler, I have not been able to

enjoy the same experience in the Neptune - Mackie mountain ranges that

I used to. I am not allowed to snowmobile on open hills that I have

for the last 30 years as BRC uses those for their skiing. Now they

want to restrict my freedom to recreate in that area even more by

moving their boundary further north where I have snowmobiled every year

for over 20 years.

I strongly suspect that this proposal is just another step towards

gaining exclusive use of the land in the tenure by Big Red Cats. The

owners attempted to do such a thing 2 years ago by having restricted

areas located throughout their tenure. Fortunately myself and other

recreationists reached an agreement with the owners of BRC and he

removed his application at that time.

 

[kootenaycat]

The thing that tics me off is that the majority of skiiers for this type of facility are imported tourists. It boils down to visitors having access to areas that exclude locals.

I guess they think "Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine, also".

Your right, basically if you have money you will be able to enjoy BC's backcountry. If not, tough $hit. Like an old employer once told me "if it's not about the money, it must be about the money". Whoever brings in the most tax dollars to the government usually gets their way.

 

[Modman]

We were up there last weekend, not much of a challenge with the spring conditions, but still fun to play and close to home. I can't believe how many km of cat trails they have cut up there. And not even sure that they took any of the timber out, I heard they left it to rot on the ground, even used it as a "platform" to help build the cat trails on the steep section south of Neptune. I'll be back there withe the camera on the quad and foot once the snow's gone to check it out.

They've already got access from Bugle ck to Mackie, sucks now as it used to be a fun challenge in the deep snow picking your way through the trees to the summit. Now there's a 20' wide cat trail. He's obviously optimistic about getting this application approved as Google Earth shows he's cut trails through the trees east of Mackie along the ridge where he'll drop over to College ck.

Already sent it Dan, hopefully he can forward it to all his sledding friends. I too am sick of being told where and when I can sled.

Yep, the old man and I were commenting on their forest usage practices as well. They had cut a cat turnaround spot on the highway side of the ridge down in the middle valley facing north (in the valley just west of the bullet), and they just cut and dropped the timber right there. Big and small trees alike. If you watch on the trails you can see spots where the snow has melted down and its easy to tell when you are riding about 4 ft off the ground just on cut trees.

I know that if you or I went and cut down a christmas tree or cut a cord of firewood, we'd probably be fined. Funny that no one says anything when it brings in tourist dollars though....

Like you say, no challenge in accessing the area now though. We used to love the challenge of getting onto the ridge and picking our way along back in the day as well. Last time we put on 80 kms in just over 3 hrs. Not much of a challenge anymore.

 

[Carbon]

reading this had to say.skiers don't put nearly the amout of money into the towns as sledders do.they look for the cheapest way to skier and board and stay.and the wasting of trees lol that to show how wastful they are.boooo cat skiing

 

[frock]

Thanks for the heads-up Kootenaycat, I sent them my 2 cents. Hope we can stop them from taking these area's.

Cheers;
Shane