Power to weight ratio or just power?

Teth-Air · Feb 23, 2020

With the direction of BRP with the 850 turbo and Yamaha in the past pushing 4 stroke turbo's in the mountains I am wondering if Cat and Polaris will get caught up in the turbo fever. The turbo direction definitely adds weight to these already heaviest platforms and I am not sure if it is the best direction. The other options are to ignore the hype or cut weight to have the best power to weight ratio, even at 8000 ft. Is this much weight loss even possible for Cat and Polaris?

So what would you prefer, a sled under 400 lbs or a sled at 575 lbs if both had the same power to weight ratio at 8000 ft?

All assuming that if put on a diet they don't fold like tinfoil.

Let's see if brand loyalists can actually stick to answering the question rather than this thread becoming brand bashing mess. (you listening Maxwell?)

Couch · Feb 23, 2020

I vote lighter the better. Ride 100' to 2500' so 800 / 600 is fine

ABMax24 · Feb 23, 2020

Under 400lbs for sure.

But I think the more realistic option is a 450ish lb 2-stroke turbo with 180ish hp.

canuck5 · Feb 23, 2020

This is a very tuff call the turbos are basically made for elevation the advantage is huge. I will play both sides I believe there is a balance point and that’s why these 850 turbos are so popular combined with being the first OEM. When you think of the 20% loss in power minimum at 8000 feet it’s a big deal. Now that said I was on the big girls(yammies) for 10 plus years and in the ultra deep and chute climbing they have there place. I have switched back to the two strokes and have had more fun riding the last year on a bone stock 800 than ever before. I find these news 800/850’s so easy to ride power isn’t there but they get up on snow and float. I think it’s a coin toss light has its place but the new 850t is a little of both best all around.

lilduke · Feb 23, 2020

light is great, but if you go too light then the sled falls apart.

TDR · Feb 23, 2020

I have to side with Dan on this one. After Axys #5 I wish Polaris would stop trying to make it lighter and give it more hp and strength for durability. In my case (and probably most avg riders) the few pounds less weight is not going to change our riding.

lilduke · Feb 23, 2020

TDR said:
I have to side with Dan on this one. After Axys #5 I wish Polaris would stop trying to make it lighter and give it more hp and strength for durability. In my case (and probably most avg riders) the few pounds less weight is not going to change our riding.

most guys I know add at least 20lbs of braces and bumpers to their new Polaris's.

Merc63 · Feb 23, 2020

I notice the weight on the turbo doo. It doesn’t get on its side as easy as the NA sleds. The weight is all on the top of the engine, hence that light weight hood.

Couch · Feb 23, 2020

lilduke said:
light is great, but if you go too light then the sled falls apart.

Not necessarily. Use of FEA and higher strength materials in the right places make for huge gains. Shot vs tradition estart is a big gain. Adding a pound to an A arm isnt necessarily going to withstand an impact better whereas proper stiffening will. Headlamp assembly leaves lots to be reduced. Coolant design is another area. Less snow buildup is another. Fewer gimmicks though - carbon fiber bumper is **** and not a good idea whereas belt drive is great.

Damage across my sleds so far is op error and i cant fault the light weight design. If you want to mow down trees and destroy rocks then get a tank or a sled designed accordingly.

lilduke · Feb 23, 2020

Couch said:
Not necessarily. Use of FEA and higher strength materials in the right places make for huge gains. Shot vs tradition estart is a big gain. Adding a pound to an A arm isnt necessarily going to withstand an impact better whereas proper stiffening will. Headlamp assembly leaves lots to be reduced. Coolant design is another area. Less snow buildup is another. Fewer gimmicks though - carbon fiber bumper is **** and not a good idea whereas belt drive is great.

Damage across my sleds so far is op error and i cant fault the light weight design. If you want to mow down trees and destroy rocks then get a tank or a sled designed accordingly.

I never said you have to build it like a tank or there isn't any places to lose weight.

like shot for example, you know what's lighter than that? pull start, I've been running that for over 20 years lmao

catrutt · Feb 23, 2020

Don't flip a new cat over backwards the wrong way or you will be shopping for a new tunnel and they arn't even that light.

ferniesnow · Feb 23, 2020

I don't care how much power the 4 strokes generate, they are way too heavy for me. Some days, I would like to be on a 154" instead of the 165" just for the ease of maneuvering but that thought is short lived on the deeper days and when I need more time to think/react to various circumstances. I am tired after a good days riding in the pow with a well balanced 500# sled. Don't need anything heavier and lighter as we have all seen is a sacrifice that I don't need. I like what I ride and will continue on with what I have found tickles my fancy!!

Shredder · Feb 23, 2020

lilduke said:
I never said you have to build it like a tank or there isn't any places to lose weight.

like shot for example, you know what's lighter than that? pull start, I've been running that for over 20 years lmao

After one season with SHOT that is in the same category as my muff pot. Something I will never ride without again.

lilduke · Feb 23, 2020

Shredder said:
After one season with SHOT that is in the same category as my muff pot. Something I will never ride without again.

you arent really a weight weenie then. So a pound here and there isnt going to bug you anyways.

RGM · Feb 23, 2020

Putting a 250lb guy and 50 lbs of gear on a 400 lb sled vs on a 575 lb sled with same power to sled weight and the 575 lb sled will walk over the 400 lb one.

niner · Feb 23, 2020

As of right now the doo turbo has the best power to weight ratio at elevation than any sled ever manufactured. If you want the lightest sled buy a poo and put a can on it. If you want the most powerful sled ever manufactured buy a sidewinder and throw a tune it. If you want something in the middle buy a turbo doo. I think it’s interesting though that doo dropped 10 lbs of the n/a expert and nobody cares. If poo dropped another 10 lbs of their chassis the internet would have blown up.

powpowpowpow · Feb 23, 2020

its easy to drop weight when you are already fat.
people who say weight does not matter obviously do not push the limits of the sled. If your just puttzin around no problem, get into tight areas/changing direction weight flat out matters.

Teth-Air · Feb 23, 2020

Some good replies and perspectives. I am pumped at what is, and will be, coming down the pipe for new iron for 2021. The only reply that makes no sense to me is this one:

"Putting a 250lb guy and 50 lbs of gear on a 400 lb sled vs on a 575 lb sled with same power to sled weight and the 575 lb sled will walk over the 400 lb one"

I do agree that on the trail the heavier sleds often ride better as the lighter sleds feel more rigid and choppy. Like a heavy Cadillac ride v.s. VW.

lilduke · Feb 23, 2020

Teth-Air said:
Some good replies and perspectives. I am pumped at what is, and will be, coming down the pipe for new iron for 2021. The only reply that makes no sense to me is this one:

"Putting a 250lb guy and 50 lbs of gear on a 400 lb sled vs on a 575 lb sled with same power to sled weight and the 575 lb sled will walk over the 400 lb one"

I do agree that on the trail the heavier sleds often ride better as the lighter sleds feel more rigid and choppy. Like a heavy Cadillac ride v.s. VW.

I think his point was the Rider will effect the Power to weight ratio. The Heavier the rider and gear the more effect it will have on that ratio.

Sleds dont just ride around by them selves.

oler1234 · Feb 23, 2020

pretty sure it was baker that always said it takes 7lbs weight loss to equal 1hp gain and vice versa. that said I think there is a limit to weight as it really bogs a riders endurance down.

safe to say most experienced riders can manhandle a 480lb or less machine. but ultimately it will be a rider preference.

Power to weight ratio or just power?

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