Why We Will Continue to Lose Riding Areas!

[Bighairybeast]

Fernie Community • View topic - Thunder Meadows Non Motorized Snowmobiling

People like this are going to continue to ruin riding for all of us. The Fernie area only has a couple of non motorized areas so please stay out of the closures before we lose all our riding. In the coming years we will need to have these groups on our side to maintain our rights in the backcountry.

 

[Shibby!]

Only thing I can ask is it clearly posted?

Expecting people to know can't be expected. hehe

I have never heard of the area and I've done a fair share of sledding down in CNP. Mostly Morrissey though.

 

[jaredszakacs]

I have my mapbook out i have heard of booth tunnel and mcdermid but only know were mcdermid is. People should be staying out of closed areas but we may need to put a sign up at the start of the snowmobiling that informs people that the little and big sand area is mostly for ski touring to a certain time of the year

 

[ferniesnow]

I have my mapbook out i have heard of booth tunnel and mcdermid but only know were mcdermid is. People should be staying out of closed areas but we may need to put a sign up at the start of the snowmobiling that informs people that the little and big sand area is mostly for ski touring to a certain time of the year

I agree. Signage in the immediate area would be good. The FSA thinks that most of the abuse comes from "locals". There is a big sign on Highway #3 in the Pass with an 1-800 phone number with information on locally closed areas. These areas are to the west and north of Fernie; Tunnel, McDermid, Fairy Creek, and the Three Sisters. There are also the closures for the Cat-Skiing areas of Powder Cowboy and Fernie Wilderness Adventures. All areas are identified on the FSA back-country trail map that is available at local vendors for $10.

Please respect the closures.....

 

[Modman]

That's the problem with the "glamorization" of some of these areas. There was a post on here earlier in the year about that area. People see a post or hear about an area through the "grapevine" and they will go there, with no clue about the area or that there are vehicle restrictions. Then some a$$clown rides out of bounds and we all lose. Something to consider before posting up about an area - if you like that area OPEN, you might want to keep your mouth CLOSED.

With all the posts about Cranbrook and area these days, you boys and girls should expect more business from AB, and with that comes all the problems. There's too many morons that show up with a truck and trailer full of sleds and think they can ride anywhere without researching the area at all. There's also the arrogant ones (locals and non-locals) who ride wherever they feel like it. Douchebags.

Also, lots of people getting into "sled-skiing" these days and they are accessing lots of backcountry where they shouldn't be, because they can't ski the easy slopes in the traditional "sled" areas. So they go and use the cat-ski operation areas instead. In a low snow year like this it gets even worse because every tom, dick and harry are looking for "fresh", so people push farther for it. When this happens, its inevitable that someone rides where they shouldn't.

 

[jaredszakacs]

i also found on google earth if you download the elkford trail map for google earth it shows trails with either quad or snowmobile trails on it I went into the mcdermid and tunnel creek area and it highlighted the trail into mcdermid and tunnel creek in red wich means snowmobile trails upon further investigation i pulled up a picture on google earth of mcdermid and it has the whole side of the mountain covered in sled tracks. if this area is closed to sledding then someone should make it well known by putting big signs up that these areas are closed to sledding cause it is very misleading when the mapbooks and google earth and everyother source is showing it open to sledders. If it is closed for a certain part of the year then stay the hell out of that area but if it is just for ski touring then show some respect and don't be hillclimbing the area if you see ski tracks on it or call island lake or powder cowboys and find out some more info

 

[devildogg]

You are all getting pretty high an mighty here, which of you has pulled out a map to check to see if this is a legal closure or not. Tunnel Mtn is open after a certain date. Thunder meadows, an area I have ski toured in even before the new cabin went in I am not sure of. So stop yipping until you know the facts. Maybe it was a case of skiers just whining cause a snowmobile and them were in the same valley heaven knows they wont share and will do anything to secure an area for them selves

 

[Modman]

You are all getting pretty high an mighty here, which of you has pulled out a map to check to see if this is a legal closure or not. Tunnel Mtn is open after a certain date. Thunder meadows, an area I have ski toured in even before the new cabin went in I am not sure of. So stop yipping until you know the facts. Maybe it was a case of skiers just whining cause a snowmobile and them were in the same valley heaven knows they wont share and will do anything to secure an area for them selves

LOL - Maybe YOU should do some research!!!


You will want to read the statement about 1/2 way down the page that states no motorized access to the cabin and rethink comments about who's yippin' without the facts.

You seem pretty defensive about someone else's actions.....

 

[devildogg]

LOL - Maybe YOU should do some research!!!


You will want to read the statement about 1/2 way down the page that states no motorized access to the cabin and rethink comments about who's yippin' without the facts.

You seem pretty defensive about someone else's actions.....

If you are inferring that it was me riding there you are incorrect, so pi$$ off, so you sent me a link an add for the cabin it means nothing to me, send me something from the ministry then I will stop yippin. Tunnel creek is open from the March 15th on, thunder meadows I am not sure about. I have been involved in land use issue's in this valley for a long time. I have seen over and over "closures" that really were not real closures, fake ministry signs posted in our sled area's. so my comment stands until I see the ministry's closure map. I am not giving up another inch of this land without a fight, so role over and play dead and blame your brethren for more land closure, WHAT have YOU done to keep land open is my question
I do know who was sledding in there I also know the guy sitting in the chair in the cabin so you see I have been involved in this for a long time , back country skiing sledding and land use. I have seen bureaucrats from the ministry with their own agenda change maps with out authorization, so if some skier cry's fowl I need to see the facts, that's all. I will not sled in a legally closed area those that know me around here know I play by the rules SO yah I am defensive

I see you are from Calgary, so do you belong to a local club here?

 

[Modman]

If you are inferring that it was me riding there you are incorrect, so pi$$ off, so you sent me a link an add for the cabin it means nothing to me, send me something from the ministry then I will stop yippin. Tunnel creek is open from the March 15th on, thunder meadows I am not sure about. I have been involved in land use issue's in this valley for a long time. I have seen over and over "closures" that really were not real closures, fake ministry signs posted in our sled area's. so my comment stands until I see the ministry's closure map. I am not giving up another inch of this land without a fight, so role over and play dead and blame your brethren for more land closure, WHAT have YOU done to keep land open is my question
I do know who was sledding in there I also know the guy sitting in the chair in the cabin so you see I have been involved in this for a long time , back country skiing sledding and land use. I have seen bureaucrats from the ministry with their own agenda change maps with out authorization, so if some skier cry's fowl I need to see the facts, that's all. I will not sled in a legally closed area those that know me around here know I play by the rules SO yah I am defensive

I see you are from Calgary, so do you belong to a local club here?

What have "I" done to keep land open??????? Well for starters.......I don't ride where I'm not supposed to.

Nice try on the "local" club angle....yeah I have belonged to the club in the past, not this year because I knew my riding season was going to be cut short so I have not purchased a membership anywhere. In the past I have had memberships in Fernie, Golden, Revy amongst others. So if you are inferring that I don't contribute anything to the local "scene" you are welcome to pi$$ off as well, I'm from the west kootenays, sled there 5 times a year during family visits, belonged to the club there as well, did many years of maintenance, and will again in the future. I was also a contributor to the families of the avy tragedy in Fernie last year, but I guess those "local" folk didn't need any support.... Allegedly one of the sledders replied that they were from "far away" when asked by a skier where they were from. Why not admit they were local (if it was the same group)?? Is this how us "brothers" are treated?

Are you a member of the local club?? If so I hope that you know the local Nordic club helped the sled club out with a grant for the latest SnowCat. I'm not sure they're the bad guys you think they are.

I will not roll over and play dead and I sure as hell will not watch the sport I love get ruined. Blaming my "brethen"? It sure as hell wasn't a hovercraft that tracked out the area - who the hell did you think was going to be blamed?

We all got painted with the same brush that day. What's done is done. I'm not going to continue harping on it.

Keep in mind that "local" guys are going to be ones that suffer the most in the end if all the riding areas are closed.

 

[devildogg]

What have "I" done to keep land open??????? Well for starters.......I don't ride where I'm not supposed to.

Nice try on the "local" club angle....yeah I have belonged to the club in the past, not this year because I knew my riding season was going to be cut short so I have not purchased a membership anywhere. In the past I have had memberships in Fernie, Golden, Revy amongst others. So if you are inferring that I don't contribute anything to the local "scene" you are welcome to pi$$ off as well, I'm from the west kootenays, sled there 5 times a year during family visits, belonged to the club there as well, did many years of maintenance, and will again in the future. I was also a contributor to the families of the avy tragedy in Fernie last year, but I guess those "local" folk didn't need any support.... Allegedly one of the sledders replied that they were from "far away" when asked by a skier where they were from. Why not admit they were local (if it was the same group)?? Is this how us "brothers" are treated?

Are you a member of the local club?? If so I hope that you know the local Nordic club helped the sled club out with a grant for the latest SnowCat. I'm not sure they're the bad guys you think they are.

I will not roll over and play dead and I sure as hell will not watch the sport I love get ruined. Blaming my "brethen"? It sure as hell wasn't a hovercraft that tracked out the area - who the hell did you think was going to be blamed?

We all got painted with the same brush that day. What's done is done. I'm not going to continue harping on it.

Keep in mind that "local" guys are going to be ones that suffer the most in the end if all the riding areas are closed.

What do you mean nice try? It was a simple question, do you or don't you support local clubs and I thank you for doing that
Did you know I was the founding father of grooming in the Elkford Area, started with a quad then brought a few other people into the group all of which took a huge risk buying the cat
Did you know I have countless hours of sweat equity in this area, trails, and cat maintenance,and have always supported the local Nordic Club even offer to groom free of charge for them I am very concerned with sustaining and protecting everyone's rights
Why you brought last years tragedy into this is beyond me this has no bearing on the topic we were supporting the families in a time of great need.

My point that you clearly missed is that no one on this thread has shown me that this area is closed other than the link to the ski hut. If it is closed it is a new closure because in FACT it was open not long ago. IF we are all being painted with the same brush lets make sure it is justifiable


Just so you know I have lived in the Kootenays my entire life have had memberships in Sparwood Golden and Elkford
I am also from the west Kootenays and have lived in the Kootenays for 50 years and still own land in the East and west Kootenays

 

[ferniesnow]

i also found on google earth if you download the elkford trail map for google earth it shows trails with either quad or snowmobile trails on it I went into the mcdermid and tunnel creek area and it highlighted the trail into mcdermid and tunnel creek in red wich means snowmobile trails upon further investigation i pulled up a picture on google earth of mcdermid and it has the whole side of the mountain covered in sled tracks. if this area is closed to sledding then someone should make it well known by putting big signs up that these areas are closed to sledding cause it is very misleading when the mapbooks and google earth and everyother source is showing it open to sledders. If it is closed for a certain part of the year then stay the hell out of that area but if it is just for ski touring then show some respect and don't be hillclimbing the area if you see ski tracks on it or call island lake or powder cowboys and find out some more info

The area in question is closed for motorized until Mar. 15 and IMHO, the person that was in there knows the dates and knows the closure. Also, the Three Sisters area is closed until Mar 15. The top end of Fairy Creek is open Mar 1 (and the top end only as the bottom is closed for community drinking water). These are clearly marked on the Fernie Snowmobile Assoc's back country trail map and I think on the Elkford map also (I can't open that while I'm into this) as the same computer engineer did both maps. The locals know the rules/closures but as we all know some of the locals choose to be 'rednecks'. It happens with the park boundary in Quartz, the caribou closures in Revy, as well as many others. We just have to get along and respect closures.

There is a letter going to the Free Press from the FSA and the aspect of signage is being investigated. The Ministry will not and does not need to get involved; it will be worked out in cooperation and mutual understanding between the FSA and Ski Touring Society.

 

[devildogg]

The area in question is closed for motorized until Mar. 15 and IMHO, the person that was in there knows the dates and knows the closure. Also, the Three Sisters area is closed until Mar 15. The top end of Fairy Creek is open Mar 1 (and the top end only as the bottom is closed for community drinking water). These are clearly marked on the Fernie Snowmobile Assoc's back country trail map and I think on the Elkford map also (I can't open that while I'm into this) as the same computer engineer did both maps. The locals know the rules/closures but as we all know some of the locals choose to be 'rednecks'. It happens with the park boundary in Quartz, the caribou closures in Revy, as well as many others. We just have to get along and respect closures.

There is a letter going to the Free Press from the FSA and the aspect of signage is being investigated. The Ministry will not and does not need to get involved; it will be worked out in cooperation and mutual understanding between the FSA and Ski Touring Society.

Thank you Doug for that clarification that's all I wanted. You are wrong though the individual that was in there, he honestly believed it was still open as it was a couple of years ago, the last time he was there. I will pass the info on, but he is an individual that has been a member of a local club for longer than either of us, as far as being a "RedNeck" I guess depending on your definition that may include many of us. He is another person that respects closures and is just misinformed I will talk to him on Monday

 

[bcskier]

Not looking to start an argument but weather 'the individual that was in there, he honestly believed it was still open as it was a couple of years ago, the last time he was there.' or not is no excuse.

I hunt every fall as you probably do too devildog, being as we are both long time valley residents. If you or I drive in a M.U. with a motor vehicle closure and get caught by a C.O. how much water do you think pleading ignorance or stupidity will hold?....it's up to you to know before you go weather there is signage saying it is closed or not!

 

[pipes]

Okay. folks I think there was a misunderstanding here. Time for a group hug.

 

[ferniesnow]

The one sled that had the BCSF decal will be identified. The decal has been blown up and the number sent to the BCSF for information. It is not a Fernie Club member as we have checked our membership list.

It will be interesting next week!

 

[bcskier]

A couple of signs have now been put up around the bottom of thunder gully and easy street. Hopefully they will help to prevent this kind of thing in the future.

 

[devildogg]

Not looking to start an argument but weather 'the individual that was in there, he honestly believed it was still open as it was a couple of years ago, the last time he was there.' or not is no excuse.

I hunt every fall as you probably do too devildog, being as we are both long time valley residents. If you or I drive in a M.U. with a motor vehicle closure and get caught by a C.O. how much water do you think pleading ignorance or stupidity will hold?....it's up to you to know before you go weather there is signage saying it is closed or not!

I wasn't making excuses and I whole heatedly agree with you, ignorance is no excuse, I just don't like the fact some one from out of town was getting all pissy with out even knowing the facts that's all, the facts are in now let the cards fall where they may. IMHO it's not a great tragedy some one made a mistake being only simple minded valley folk these things some times happen. If we want to hang one of our own I wont be part of it, if we want to give them the benefit of the doubt then I will be part of that. This is the first infraction of have heard about lately and it should not be viewed as as the decades greatest tragedy. It may have pi$$ed the skiers off I understand, I recall skinning to the old Thunder Meadows Cabin when a Heli dropped of skiers on big Flat top, I was angry as heck, but I got over it, so should the skiers that took the photos. There has to be give and take on both sides
Just my $.02 and my last post in this thread

 

[Bighairybeast]

I'm glad to see signage being put in. But in this case I don't believe ignorance was part of it.

You don't stumble upon this area by accident. First you must go through Powder Cowboy cat skiing operations (or alternately Island Lake cat skiing or Fernie Alpine Resort properties). So this is the first user group that gets upset. Then it is not a straight forward route, so local knowledge comes into play. For this reason people riding here know what area they are getting into and obviously don't care about the interests of other groups. Even if they don't believe it is a legally closed area they still know that a ski touring group has permission to have their cabin there, so why would they choose to tear up an area that these people put hours of effort into accessing??

 

[Modman]

I wasn't making excuses and I whole heatedly agree with you, ignorance is no excuse, I just don't like the fact some one from out of town was getting all pissy with out even knowing the facts ....

I wonder who this was a reference too......

I wasn't going to chime in because I was hoping this thread would just die since this is just bad press for sledders, but since you seem to want to keep bringing it up...

I knew the facts - sleds are not allowed in the area. I'm from "out of town" and even I knew that. What else is there to know? I don't see how hard this is figure out. In fact, its pretty simple. There's these great inventions out there now called the "INTERNET" or the "TELEPHONE". Either of them can be used to collect information. Don't paint me with the "bad guy" brush when some locals didn't know the rules in their own house and had to be informed. I'm not apologizing if some ego's were bruised.

I ride all over and have seen this kind of BS everywhere and I'm getting sick and tired of it. Sometimes its a tourist that makes a mistake, sometimes its a local person. Always seems to be the "non-locals" getting blamed though. While I will continue to support the club and its trails, I will not be anyone's scapegoat, no matter who or what area it is. If you make a mistake, then man-up to it, admit it and apologize. Don't say you're from "far away".

This isn't an "isolated incident", I think that sledders are just lucky that most skiers probably tolerate it, which is why you don't hear about it more. Just last year I watched three sledders use the trails in a cat skiing operation for their own personal highway because the sled trail had a couple bumps in it. This was also in the Fernie area. They knew exactly where to go, almost like they rode the area every weekend......

Is this a "great tragedy"? no. So you can keep bringing this up or you can let it die. What's done is done. Time to move on.