Think this over

[bbtoys]

With all the media coverage we get, mostly negative, and pressure on politicians to cut costs, what would happen if they made it like Alberta and you had to pay for an ambulance ride or in this case a rescue. Can you even imagine the cost to buy backcountry insurance and would you???
These SAR calls are not cheap and with all the calls, not just sled but skiers as well, are we are opening the door for this type cost???
These are just personal thoughts that have come up lately by a number of sledders and backcountry users. I know it would suck for my SAR manager to have to ask the first question---Insurance number please---and how would you like to pay for this if you don't have insurance.
We need to bring the deaths to stop for this year, I don't think that the above cenario will happen but why tempt fate.

 

[Bogger]

I've seen this come up in every comment section of every article this year...."the cost is so high" "the families should be made to pay" "this is MY tax payer money" ect ect.ect..... I understand the cost is high and maybe I'm way off base but every sled that is sold has tax paid on it, every sled is "supposed to be" registered, trail passes are bought, every hotel stay, meal,fuel purchase, ect.. is taxed. Now given the number of sledders that venture to the mountains every year what is the percentage that requires a search and rescue, and what is the total cost of rescue/recovery Vs benifit to local economy. I have yet to go ride the mountains but I do plan to just not this year, I also plan on retiring to the McBride area.

It's similar to the smoking issue..."It's a drain on the healthcare system". When smoking kills as many people as it does each year why do you think they don't outlaw it? they can't afford to, the tax revenue far exceeds the cost. People compain that smokers are a drain on the system when realistically we are one of the biggest contributers.

I commend you and your team for what you do and I can only hope that service will remain...One thing I do know....Even if no rescue services were provided, the riders would still ride....

Bogger

 

[Thunderr]

I for one carry a SPOT satellite messenger with the optional rescue insurance.
Hopefully I'll never need it. I did have to pay for my ambulance ride to the hospital and then to Calgary. Is this not the norm?

Check it out.
$7.95/yr USD (if purchased at initial activation. $150.00 USD afterwards)
Provides up to $100,000 USD of additional search and rescue resources, including helicopter extraction around the world and reimbursement benefits – underwritten by Lloyd’s of London – for any emergency service expenses incurred. For more information, including terms and conditions, visit GEOS Search and Rescue (SPOT)

Cheers

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Me Too...
.

I for one carry a SPOT satellite messenger with the optional rescue insurance.
Hopefully I'll never need it. I did have to pay for my ambulance ride to the hospital and then to Calgary. Is this not the norm?

Check it out.
$7.95/yr USD (if purchased at initial activation. $150.00 USD afterwards)
Provides up to $100,000 USD of additional search and rescue resources, including helicopter extraction around the world and reimbursement benefits – underwritten by Lloyd’s of London – for any emergency service expenses incurred. For more information, including terms and conditions, visit GEOS Search and Rescue (SPOT)

Cheers

 

[bbtoys]

This is a tourism issue and that is why it is hard to implement. We as B.C. residents don't want to scare the only $$$ coming our way through tourism to another part of the country, or God forbid they all stay home.
Most sled's being ridden in B.C. are bought in Alberta so tax benifit here is nill and I am sorry to tell you that the small bit of taxes of the rest of what you mentioned would not go far on some of the SAR's that happen. Sled's registered in Alberta, that $$ stay's in Alberta and we don't need to register our sled's here.
It is a simple fix---we as backcountry users just have to make smarter choices on some of our excursions. It is a small % of the riders that do come that are involved in a SAR and if all clubs that charge a trail pass fee could get together and put the numbers on paper you are right, very small % of the people coming are involved in a SAR.

 

[bbtoys]

The SPOT insurance is not needed in BC if you are involved in a SAR it is payed for by SAR. For other parts of Canada, don't know what they do and if you are going to ride the US you should for sure pay for the extra insurance from SPOT.

 

[Murminator]

The SPOT insurance is not needed in BC if you are involved in a SAR it is payed for by SAR. For other parts of Canada, don't know what they do and if you are going to ride the US you should for sure pay for the extra insurance from SPOT.

Nice to know Barry....if people do have spot insurance can SAR recover some of the rescue money from them.....maybe billing back to the people involed?

 

[ferniesnow]

and we don't need to register our sled's here.

A good thread with good ideas.

The above statement is erroneous. We in BC are required to register our sleds (the little yellow sticker that stays with the sled for the life of the sled). Most don't do it as it is poorly enforced and then there is the tax issue that most people avoid without registering. 7% of $13000 is $910 that BC riders can see as accessories (again bought in Alberta), etc.

Before sledders have to pay for S&R they will have to include skiers/boarders/hikers/hunters/and anyone else who uses the back-country and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I also use SPOT and my "help" list is made up of friends and I would prefer it that way as in our area my friends generally know where I am and how to get there. S&R have to get the maps out, etc., etc. I didn't purchase the SPOT insurance, as for me, that is red tape that I don't need in Canada.

On the insurance note, "holiday insurance" is pretty cheap; if I'm walking on a rocky beach on the west coast and break my leg and a chopper is required to get me out I can purchase insurance for that senario. Something like $50 for 3 weeks. So what would back-country insurance cost for 3,4, or 6 months?

Good ideas and good information; keep contributing.

 

[RETODD]

I for one carry a SPOT satellite messenger with the optional rescue insurance.
Hopefully I'll never need it. I did have to pay for my ambulance ride to the hospital and then to Calgary. Is this not the norm?

Check it out.
$7.95/yr USD (if purchased at initial activation. $150.00 USD afterwards)
Provides up to $100,000 USD of additional search and rescue resources, including helicopter extraction around the world and reimbursement benefits – underwritten by Lloyd’s of London – for any emergency service expenses incurred. For more information, including terms and conditions, visit GEOS Search and Rescue (SPOT)

Cheers

Me also...very cheap insurance. I did the checking it is totally valid in Canada and for what we are using it for!!

 

[cobbycat]

A good thread with good ideas.

The above statement is erroneous. We in BC are required to register our sleds (the little yellow sticker that stays with the sled for the life of the sled). Most don't do it as it is poorly enforced and then there is the tax issue that most people avoid without registering. 7% of $13000 is $910 that BC riders can see as accessories (again bought in Alberta), etc.
Before sledders have to pay for S&R they will have to include skiers/boarders/hikers/hunters/and anyone else who uses the back-country and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I also use SPOT and my "help" list is made up of friends and I would prefer it that way as in our area my friends generally know where I am and how to get there. S&R have to get the maps out, etc., etc. I didn't purchase the SPOT insurance, as for me, that is red tape that I don't need in Canada.

On the insurance note, "holiday insurance" is pretty cheap; if I'm walking on a rocky beach on the west coast and break my leg and a chopper is required to get me out I can purchase insurance for that senario. Something like $50 for 3 weeks. So what would back-country insurance cost for 3,4, or 6 months?

Good ideas and good information; keep contributing.

if you are paying $13000, you are buying a new sled. when you buy a new sled the tax is paid immediately at the dealership (canada). when I went to register my '08 m1000 that I bought at a dealership, it cost me $10 as I paid the taxes when I bought the sled. and the fine gentleman in blue who got out of the white car with blue and reds on top, and issued me with a warning ticket said they are starting to crack down on unregistered sleds, so get 'er done.

as far as taxes paying for SAR, I'm not really crazy about my tax dollars going to sending Canadians to war in the far east to ensure the US still get their oil, but I don't bitch about it!! I don't like my tax dollars going to a lot of places but it happens!! tax $ going to SAR; tax dollars are going to a lot dumber places!!

as far as rescues, SAR mobilized to a call I made in enderby/sicamous and had 2 choppers up there just in time to take the body home. the search and recoverey of this (and many more) avy victim was conducted by the snowmobilers on the hill at the time, not SAR! I'm not bashing SAR at all, just that I believe this is usually the scenario as we are allready there. I put in 3.5 of the hardest hours of my life that day and the last thing I thought of was money. people are dying and all I see in these threads is greedy @#$%ers worried about money, grow up!!

 

[Modman]

If we are paying for SAR then all these backcountry skiers and boarders, hikers etc better d@mn well have to pay as well. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If I pay more do I get better and faster (priority) treatment than someone else (privatization perhaps)?

This is a terrible road to travel down. What we will see is people risking their lives to save costs rather than get the proper medical treatment.

Imagine if this is you. Your buddy slams his chest into the bars while riding and punctures a lung. He doesn't want the $2000 life flight so he says he's ok (no chopper) but needs you take him down and you being the good friend load him on your sled (maybe he rides his own sled) and head out, he dies in route because his injuries were worse than he let on and all the jarring on the trail or in the truck didn't help. Maybe his widow sues you because you are not a trained EMT and don't know how to properly transport a patient, maybe not, either way you feel terrible and you lost your buddy. Maybe he doesn't die, maybe he just permantely does some serious damage, maybe he has a spinal injury and now he's 1/2 way down the trail and does some serious damage.

Well, he saved a few bucks anyway....

You laugh and think it won't happen....so I challenge you to go to any similar user pay system in the world and ask the people how much their life is worth. Believe it or not - they will tell you. Because they put less value on human life than we do. Here in Canada we have a value for life - Priceless. Its the same reason I pull over for the ambulance - I would want someone to get out of the way if it was me in the back of it. If some billionaire runs a red light and T-bones me in an intersection, I want to know that I will get the same treatment as he does because the system sees us both equal, not less than him because he is richer and can pay more.

If we may SAR a pay system, it won't be long before we pay for all our rescue services. Better have the limit on your credit cards up'd in case you get into a car wreck.....

Its a very slippery and ugly slope. I hope we never get started down it.

 

[ferniesnow]

if you are paying $13000, you are buying a new sled. when you buy a new sled the tax is paid immediately at the dealership (canada). when I went to register my '08 m1000 that I bought at a dealership, it cost me $10 as I paid the taxes when I bought the sled. and the fine gentleman in blue who got out of the white car with blue and reds on top, and issued me with a warning ticket said they are starting to crack down on unregistered sleds, so get 'er done.

as far as taxes paying for SAR, I'm not really crazy about my tax dollars going to sending Canadians to war in the far east to ensure the US still get their oil, but I don't bitch about it!! I don't like my tax dollars going to a lot of places but it happens!! tax $ going to SAR; tax dollars are going to a lot dumber places!!

as far as rescues, SAR mobilized to a call I made in enderby/sicamous and had 2 choppers up there just in time to take the body home. the search and recoverey of this (and many more) avy victim was conducted by the snowmobilers on the hill at the time, not SAR! I'm not bashing SAR at all, just that I believe this is usually the scenario as we are allready there. I put in 3.5 of the hardest hours of my life that day and the last thing I thought of was money. people are dying and all I see in these threads is greedy @#$%ers worried about money, grow up!!

Yes, the GST is collected by every dealer but if you buy the sled in Alberta that is all you pay (there is no 7% provincial sales tax). To register the sled in BC, the PST has to be paid on the purchase price.

 

[bbtoys]

I did say backcountry users, not just sled's.

 

[Scrambled]

I wouldnt worry about it it wont change anytime soon,B.C is a very vast area which most of it is remote areas and the people who live in the outlying areas [outside of the lower mainland]are generally outdoors people as are most of the S&R members,the volunteer do this to keep are backcountry as safe and enjoyable for themselves and every one else.In most areas were snomobilers ride if there called its usually a recovery or very serious injury.We as backcountry user have to take some of the responsabilitys{First aid,not getting lost,and being prepared for the things that can happen out there},just my thoughts.If it ever did come to a pay thing youd just have abunch of friends gettin together and forming there own safety set up as best as they can.I personally would never pay,I try to be very self sufficent out there,never ride alone and the farther out you go the more carefull you gotta be.Dont rely on someone else to save you if your not prepared to save yourself to a certian degree.cant be prepared for everything but atleast cover yourself for the majority.
Jim

 

[OverBore]

I think that the costs of S&R are covered by the taxes that are paid wihtin BC. We may come from Alberta and may be a cost to the people of BC if S&R costs are involved, but we also pay the PST on everything we buy while in BC, Lodging, food, fuel, etc.

I have no idea on the costs or operations of S&R but have some questions.
1. I assume that S&R member are paid during an rescue or recovery situation?
2. If the event is a sledding fatality, are the bodies flown by helicopter to the McBride hospital or brought down the trail to an ambulance at the staging parking lot?
3. What happens to the sleds left on the mountain in the event of a fatility?
4. What level of government pays for the S&R costs?

 

[bbtoys]

I think that the costs of S&R are covered by the taxes that are paid wihtin BC. We may come from Alberta and may be a cost to the people of BC if S&R costs are involved, but we also pay the PST on everything we buy while in BC, Lodging, food, fuel, etc.

I have no idea on the costs or operations of S&R but have some questions.
1. I assume that S&R member are paid during an rescue or recovery situation?
2. If the event is a sledding fatality, are the bodies flown by helicopter to the McBride hospital or brought down the trail to an ambulance at the staging parking lot?
3. What happens to the sleds left on the mountain in the event of a fatility?
4. What level of government pays for the S&R costs?

SAR members are volunteer
Depends on the conditions and if the bird can fly and the bodies do end up in the hospital
That is the responsibility of the family and friends to go get them. WE do and can be hired to go get them for the families but has nothing to to with SAR
Provincial
Hope this helps.

 

[mb1]

The vast majority of backcountry users will never need to use SAR. I don't even complain too much about taxes paying for healthcare for the obese or smokers. And these people have inevitable expenses coming.

I bet the gov't officials bill for travel to meetings, courses, hearings, etc. would make SAR totals look like a drop in the bucket. They would see serious heat from denying all of these groups that use the backcountry from a SAR if the need arises. I think it would be terrible if a guy couldn't take his kids to the mountain for fear that if something terrible should happen it would bankrupt him as well.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I gotta weigh in on this with some facts. Solicitor general John VanDongen is amped up about SAR cost recovery. As BBtoys will attest SAR in BC is administered through the umbrella org PEP BC. This group is funded by the provincial govt. Ever since the 4 skiers got busted for poaching pow pillows in suicide gulley on Grouse the media and govt have been all over SAR cost recovery. I have had an ongoing dialogue with the Solicitor General trying to insert some logic into a ridiculous situation.
Since January I have been lobbying The minister to not knuckle under to pressure from the overly opinionated Non outdoors types who run the media in this country. I am not having much success as the uber stupid masses do not get what is involved in safe and responsible backcountry recreation.
I was informed by the minister that one course of action on this may be to close all the back country during extreme or even high Avy advisory conditions.
This is already applicable under existing laws. The same law that allows the govt to force evacuation during forest fires or other danger is the logic of the govt. As a group we should be extremely cautious and not take any undue risks. Also a well written letter to the minister will do more good than anything else we can do. There is a election coming up soon and as all politicians do they are right now cozying up to whoever is the most organized and vocal.
Sar cost recovery is also a very hot topic. Almost every SAR leader I've talked to is dead set against this for very obvious reasons. The most obvious reason is Joe bozo goes into the woods and gets in a ridiculously dangerous position and then calls 4 equally mentally challenged bozo's to help him and the net result is 5 peep's to be rescued by SAR. There by putting even more peep's in the line of fire. Minimizing potential danger is a real and ever present concern for SAR.
Send an email to:
pssgwebfeedback@gov.bc.ca
Ministry of public safety and solicitor general
Yet another instance where the govt should stay out of my life. my.02