The twin vs triple debate. time to bring back the trip---or not?

[Clode]

The only advantage a twin has is its cheaper to manufacture.

 

[CUSO]

That's the only advantage?

The only advantage a twin has is its cheaper to manufacture.

 

[Clode]

I don't think the twins of today are any more reliable than the old triples, and if you want to make big power more pistons are better. I have owned both and my mod triples always worked great. Twins shake more, but are narrow allowing for smaller chassis, but I will still always be a triple lover.

 

[teeroy]

Lets get a couple things straight here! 1. Hp is a mathematical equation from tq! All dynos measure tq and figure the hp out mathematically ! 2 . I rode the 600 every where including them mtns and only the big bore 740 (670) sleds gave me much trouble and my sled was still at least 75 lbs heavier than most s chassis! 3 you don't clutch your sled for tq? You clutch to where the engine makes peak hp so the tq therory don't mean diddly! The only place the twin would have a slight advantage is on initial take off but if triple is clutched correctly the advantage will be short lived! Last time i checked my sleds I hit the pin tach hits 8000 and if its clutched right it stays there! Doesn't drop to peak tq?4. It's 2013 and wow a 800 twin finally matched the hp of a engine that debut in 94? It takes a myriad of electronics and other hi-tec goodies to make it all work. It is interesting to flip through the crankshops catalog and find that their engine that makes the most power is a three cylinder rotary valve?? Thought for sure it would be a 1200 twin!Not!We can argue for days but talk to guys in the know and they all say the same. Triples make the most power twins keep them alive with repairs end of story!One other thing if I could buy a big etec triple and even if it was 40 lbs heavier I would buy cause its still lighter than my 1000 twin was!

wow, you're goin off on your own trail....you explained exactly why the twins were better in the situation I described. the triples were 75 lbs heavier, requiring more throttle to move, harder to get it pointed where you wanted to go at slow speed, and spun trenches. remember, this was in 1996, not 2013 so I have no idea why you would stray off into a long winded explaination about your 1000cc twin and an etec triple. take a breath dude

 

[jbb]

What 90`s sled made over 160hp????and efi doesnt give more hp. Imho

 

[teeroy]

What 90`s sled made over 160hp????and efi doesnt give more hp. Imho

the triples....lol. zrt 800, t-cat, mach z, and maybe the storm?

 

[teeroy]

the triples....lol. zrt 800, t-cat, mach z, and maybe the storm?

I guess only the 1000 t-cat, 172hp. mach z was just under 160

 

[Caper11]

the triples....lol. zrt 800, t-cat, mach z, and maybe the storm?

The xc 800 triple was about 155hp, they were all about the same hp at that time. the t-cat 1000 was about 170 if i remember right.

 

[popcorn popper]

wow, you're goin off on your own trail....you explained exactly why the twins were better in the situation I described. the triples were 75 lbs heavier, requiring more throttle to move, harder to get it pointed where you wanted to go at slow speed, and spun trenches. remember, this was in 1996, not 2013 so I have no idea why you would stray off into a long winded explaination about your 1000cc twin and an etec triple. take a breath dude

Hey teeroy I said that cause I was giving the weight advantage to te twin ANd it still can't get by the triple. You really can't get it figured can you. Just call one of the engine builders it will save alot of ranting !

 

[teeroy]

Hey teeroy I said that cause I was giving the weight advantage to te twin ANd it still can't get by the triple. You really can't get it figured can you. Just call one of the engine builders it will save alot of ranting !

well, the triples sure didn't impress anyone on that day. I got that part figured.....and that you love to rant lol

 

[DRD]

Do you know the differance between NHRA style drag racing, and NSSR speed runs? there have been speed records set at the NSSR with twin cyl sleds but the majority are triple cyl sleds, totally different styles of racing.
I guess you didn't read that I mentioned the sleds I raced were mostly triple/triple's, anything from a stock 600 to a full improved ultra 680. I was speaking from experiance, twin cyl sleds are quicker off the line and the triple were playing catch up.
The long distance I mentioned was an example in case someone that I quoted was thinking of lake racing. Mostly the races I ran in were 1/8 of a mile and 1000ft.

As far as I know the record holding pro stock 1000 on ashphalt pulled a 1.12 60' time, and it's a triple driven by a girl. Not bad for a boggy out of the hole three banger. Triples dominate in pretty much all forms of racing where HP is king and supercharging isn't allowed. The inherant inability for a big twin to breath as good as a smaller cylindered triple will always put it behind. It's no accident OEM's stay near that 4-500 cc/cylinder range. Big twins have to run slower so they have time to scavenge, speed them up to try and get more work done, the power output drops.

 

[jbb]

I had astorm and imo my rmk 700 was abetter machine

 

[lilduke]

PSI Genisis 1800cc

360hp and 230lbs of torque

Id love to see one turboed!!

If only they still made these and I could stuff one in a xm,,,Oh the ch!t it would climb...lol

 

[Caper11]

As far as I know the record holding pro stock 1000 on ashphalt pulled a 1.12 60' time, and it's a triple driven by a girl. Not bad for a boggy out of the hole three banger. Triples dominate in pretty much all forms of racing where HP is king and supercharging isn't allowed. The inherant inability for a big twin to breath as good as a smaller cylindered triple will always put it behind. It's no accident OEM's stay near that 4-500 cc/cylinder range. Big twins have to run slower so they have time to scavenge, speed them up to try and get more work done, the power output drops.

Come on man quit bringing sled engine Mods into this!!! pro stock class is a totally different class than stock.
I'm talking out of the box comparison between twins and triples, anybody who drag raced in the late 90's had this chance to race stock triples against the new twins, which I believe the original poster was asking about for a comparison, the "what if" a triple was offered again.
You dont have to tell me the advantages and disadvantages in both engines. The team i was with had a crankshop full mod indy storm, the full improved ultra 680, and a 825psi twin in a xc 700, raced on grass, ice, ski hills, etc.
I'm telling you what I witnessed from behind the bars or in the pits.
I love triples always have, but are they the right tool for the job? ask Brett ransmussan, or keith curtis if they would prefer a triple or twin to take to jackson hole with them.
If yah want to start talking mod engines I know psi makes a 1085 twin that makes 225hp at 8400rpm and a 145ft/lbs of torque.
But there is no replacement for deplacement. psi also makes a 1800 triple the pushes 360hp and 230 ft lbs of tq. but i can't afford to put a $16000 engine in my xm just to get a triple again.

 

[lilduke]

PSI is out of buisness that doesnt help ither...lol

 

[Caper11]

PSI is out of buisness that doesnt help ither...lol

Since when? Give Bruce Kahlhamer a call PSI POWER · 801.393.1010
Welcome to PSI POWER!

 

[thegeneral]

I know nothing about engines!!!

Why can they not just go with a little bigger cylinders on the twin to get more HP? If it works to increase power such as going with the Bikeman 880 or the rk tek 860 why then doesn't BRP just cut out the middle man, give me a 175hp twin and charge me an extra $1000?

 

[lilduke]

Since when? Give Bruce Kahlhamer a call PSI POWER · 801.393.1010
Welcome to PSI POWER!

Try calling that number tommorow dude... Notice how they havent got any product for a sled newer than 2007.....

 

[popcorn popper]

Try calling that number tommorow dude... Notice how they havent got any product for a sled newer than 2007.....

In mid 90's nothing beat the triples including cats big 900 twin! We know that the triples were heavier then but they still out performed the twins. The twins did handle better as far as mtn ridin but it wasn't as bad as everyone thinks. What we are saying in this thread is with today's tec like etec, lightweight materials better clutching, better pipes the triple can be made lighter than before. My own Zx triple is within 30lbs of my new xm. That's the difference between the xm and pro and no one is worried about that?we never said etec makes power either but it does a better job of controlling altitude and temp changes keeping the engine runnin clean which helps with power. And lastly a 1000 cc triple wil be way more realiable than a 1000 twin and we all know how realiable those were!

 

[DRD]

Come on man quit bringing sled engine Mods into this!!! pro stock class is a totally different class than stock.
I'm talking out of the box comparison between twins and triples, anybody who drag raced in the late 90's had this chance to race stock triples against the new twins, which I believe the original poster was asking about for a comparison, the "what if" a triple was offered again.
You dont have to tell me the advantages and disadvantages in both engines. The team i was with had a crankshop full mod indy storm, the full improved ultra 680, and a 825psi twin in a xc 700, raced on grass, ice, ski hills, etc.
I'm telling you what I witnessed from behind the bars or in the pits.
I love triples always have, but are they the right tool for the job? ask Brett ransmussan, or keith curtis if they would prefer a triple or twin to take to jackson hole with them.
If yah want to start talking mod engines I know psi makes a 1085 twin that makes 225hp at 8400rpm and a 145ft/lbs of torque.
But there is no replacement for deplacement. psi also makes a 1800 triple the pushes 360hp and 230 ft lbs of tq. but i can't afford to put a $16000 engine in my xm just to get a triple again.

You brought up drag racing. If you look at what holds "stock" class records you will find the same thing.
Not a chance in hell an "affiliated" team will show up anywhere with non-current production engines.
Mark Thompson ran a Lemke triple for years at Jackson, so they can be made to "hill climb" as well.
Is there any PSI engines that still run out there?