Large Amount of BC Land Closed to Snowmobilers

[wide_open]

I didn't find this mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd bring it to everybody's attention. In order for caribou recovery the BC government is closing over a million hectares of land to snowmobilers. I've included the link for everybody to read and view the maps of the areas they have laid out.

My personal opinion is that I am fine with the closures as there is plenty of land to go to. However I feel the maps aren't very helpful and I can't really tell if the areas that we ride in are affected. Hopefully for everybody else you can see if you are affected.

Fish and Wildlife - Environment - Province of British Columbia

 

[MtnMaster]

Looks like alot of area around Valemount and Blue River. I wonder if this applies to Mr. Mike Weigele too?? I bet it doesn't, and I can guaruntee a heli scares a herd of caribou a buttload more than a sled.

 

[pipes]

Looks like alot of area around Valemount and Blue River. I wonder if this applies to Mr. Mike Weigele too?? I bet it doesn't, and I can guaruntee a heli scares a herd of caribou a buttload more than a sled.

ain't that the truth

 

[scotts]

Iam not sure how anyone could "be ok with it" , Thses clousers encompass huge tracts of land in the Valemont and Blue river areas. Once land is closed you can rest assured it wont be reopened anytime soon regardless of the out come on the caribou population.
These clousers are a pointless act based on shoddy science to appeal to special interests.

 

[frock]

This is the e-mail I sent to our BC government, I'll post the reply if I get one.

I see by your closure maps that you have shut down a huge area to snowmobiling. I am having a lot of difficulty interpreting these maps so I will just ask the question, has any of the heli or cat skiing operations within these areas been affected by these closures. If they have, could you please list which operators and the area they have lost.

 

[takethebounce]

There are land closures every winter for Caribou. With out looking at last years map, this map looks very simular from what I can remember. Maybe a few modifications to the areas. Unfortunately you have to educate yourself as a responsbile sledder and know what areas are closed. Make sure you enlarge the topo version for the areas you normally ride.

As far as these closures being pointless, I don't agree. But I don't think it is the final solution to encourage growth in heards either.



- More info on closures for people who care.

 

[dooryder]

these are the closures that have been already in effect

 

[wide_open]

Iam not sure how anyone could "be ok with it"
These clousers are a pointless act based on shoddy science to appeal to special interests.

I'm ok with the closures because I do believe in conservation acts like these. I haven't always agreed with it so I do understand how people get angry. When I was working north of Manning down the Chinchaga road, I was as redneck as they came and couldn't believe that oil and gas got shut down because of a few damn reindeer. Luckily I managed to escape that kind of thinking and encourage programs like this, even if some of the studies have been called into question and it does limit my recreation and work areas. Unfortunately there's ways oil and gas companies are able to get around it quite easily, but this is not the forum for that.

I started the thread not knowing that these were regular closures, also because I thought the maps were quite difficult to use and wanted other snowmobilers to know. It was also brought to my attention that the heli or cat operations may have been spared in this situation, which does seem unfair. So far it has worthwhile as I've learned more from S&M members than I could find online. Thanks.

 

[team dirt]

A large portion of these closures took effect last february. They added onto alot of existing closures. These closures resulted in a huge chunk of prime sledding terrain being closed and forcing all riders into smaller areas. I know for a fact that these closures do not affect heli operations near as hard as they affect us. They are required to fly at 500m above the area and scout for caribou. then they can land and let out skiers. You dont think 8-10 skiers hooting and hollering ripping through the closed land is displacing caribou. Give your head a shake and do some actuall science on this one goverment, stop letting tree huggers have all the rights.

 

[moyiesledhead]

First let me say, I'm glad to see people are noticing and talking about this issue. I have it posted under land use issues, but this will probably get more attention. Getting the word out is the only way we have a chance of making it work and not sufferring more losses.

I'm one of the people that's spent the last 5 years negotiating the closures around our area. I won't get into the right or wrong in restricting us to save Caribou, because it's a moot point. Government is going to do it whether it's justifiable by science or not. Yup, the maps aren't great. In our area we have some large signs with just the applicable part of the map on them, and they're much better. We also have smaller signs in the affected areas....just gotta watch for them. They're bright yellow! I think most areas will get to this point fairly soon if they're not there already. As snowmobilers we really need to honor these closures. Thousands of volunteer hours have gone into fighting for the areas we managed to keep open by being very stubborn, organized, and at times political. The Caribou recovery science team is not happy with what we managed to keep. Non-compliance with the areas we agreed to close will really bite us, and soon in my opinion. The minority of sledders that just get mad, rip down the sign, and go where they want are not going to do us any good.

No, heli & cat ski operations have not been affected by this. Government doesn't want to have to buy their tenures back, plain and simple. They'll harp about their operating procedures to mitigate impact blah, blah, blah....but the bottom line is money. Back country skiers aren't affected either, but that is starting to change. Some areas in the Kootenay Pass (Selkirks) have been closed to skiers now, and our local agreement (if MOE ever signs it!) puts the same restrictions on skiers as we have.

I'll stop now before I wind myself up any more!

Edit: Before anyone gets wound up....the red areas on this map are NOT closed, they're roads and cutblocks only. The black areas are total closures. If you're riding in the East Kootenays please stop and check out the map. Sure we lost some area, but it's not as bad as it looks. Some other areas in the Province.....not so good.

 

[Mongrol]

Hey MOYIESLEDHEAD, got a question concerning designated area 56.

I can't find anything in the legend concerning the heavy red lines East of the Gray Creek pass & also just below it.

Do you know what that indicates? Looks like the old power line near the summit and the summit on the pass itself.

Any idea?

 

[moyiesledhead]

Hey MOYIESLEDHEAD, got a question concerning designated area 56.

I can't find anything in the legend concerning the heavy red lines East of the Gray Creek pass & also just below it.

Do you know what that indicates? Looks like the old power line near the summit and the summit on the pass itself.

Any idea?

I can't open the Government maps from home (dialup!) but I think I know where you're looking. If it's where I put the arrow, the designation is "roads only". The government GIS guy missed it in the legend. We have stickers coming for our signs, and hopefully it'll get changed on the website. The reason on this one is not for Caribou. The only habibtat is in the top end. This drainage is the City of Kimberleys community watershed, and this was a compromise from a total closure that they agreed to. Most community watersheds around here are total closures.

If it's actually the west side of Gray Creek pass that you're looking at, I believe it's all closed except for the road. That area was negotiated by the Creston club.

Ken

 

[scotts]

I'm ok with the closures because I do believe in conservation acts like these. I haven't always agreed with it so I do understand how people get angry. When I was working north of Manning down the Chinchaga road, I was as redneck as they came and couldn't believe that oil and gas got shut down because of a few damn reindeer. Luckily I managed to escape that kind of thinking and encourage programs like this,

Would'nt you want to know that the program you agree with is actually going to have some positive affect first. Has anyone informed you that the entire mountain caribou heard has been on the decline for several decades now even in areas where snowmobiles are not a factor whatsoever. I would like to see solid data proving that snowmobiles are in any way responsible for this decline before i jump to conclusions and support these policys

 

[Mongrol]

Last winter, near Redding Creek, I saw some Cariboo tracks that coincidently appeared with a couple of sled tracks for about a mile. When the sleds tracks went into the bush so did the Cariboo tracks.

Maybe the Cariboo were hasseling the sleds? Yup, that must be it.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Would'nt you want to know that the program you agree with is actually going to have some positive affect first. Has anyone informed you that the entire mountain caribou heard has been on the decline for several decades now even in areas where snowmobiles are not a factor whatsoever. I would like to see solid data proving that snowmobiles are in any way responsible for this decline before i jump to conclusions and support these policys

You're absolutely correct, and you won't find that data because it doesn't exist. We spent a very long time frustrating the crap out of ourselves trying to make that arguement before we finally realized it's not really about Caribou for many on the Enviro side, though it is for the true Wildlife Biologists that we've dealt with. The sad part is that the ENGO's have a stronger voice than we do, and it's our own fault. For the most part we as sledders don't seem to pay attention till the signs go up, and then it's too late. It's about closing us out, and I consider Caribou the species of convenience for these areas. If it wasn't Caribou it would be Badgers, or Grizzlies, or Lynx, or who knows what else. It's Yellowstone to Yukon, and it's not going away any time soon. We finally had to accept that as fact and turn our attentions to doing the very best we could for snowmobilers. Know this though....as a group within the BCSF environmental committee, we're not prepaired to give up any more area. We're done. But if noncompliance on what we did give up is high, they just may come and take some more. Please don't make the fight harder than it already is.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Last winter, near Redding Creek, I saw some Cariboo tracks that coincidently appeared with a couple of sled tracks for about a mile.

That's about right according to the census last spring. They found three animals together in the top end of Kianuko park, and the other eleven in the Angus Creek / Grassy Mountain area. Yup....that's a total of fourteen in the entire South Purcells range.

 

[Rucky]

Has anyone thought that sledders actually help the caribou? When it snows 5 feet in the mountains, the caribou, and other animals, use snowmobile tracks and trails to move around.

 

[Mongrol]

Back in the late 50's & early 60's Cariboo were very plentiful in the area East of Crawford Bay till they were overhunted and the area was indiscriminatly logged. Never been the same, but logging is still goin on there.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Has anyone thought that sledders actually help the caribou? When it snows 5 feet in the mountains, the caribou, and other animals, use snowmobile tracks and trails to move around.

We don't even bring that arguement up any more because they just bring up the predators using our tracks issue, even though that rarely happens. Predators aren't going to leave the valley bottom smorgasbord to go up into the high country on the off chance of finding a Caribou, but that truth never seems to get out to the public.

Do you see how complicated this issue gets though?

 

[moyiesledhead]

Back in the late 50's & early 60's Cariboo were very plentiful in the area East of Crawford Bay till they were overhunted and the area was indiscriminatly logged. Never been the same, but logging is still goin on there.

Yup, logging created early seral forest too close to Caribou habitat which in turn brought other ungulates and their predators closer to the Caribou. Caribou became a secondary prey for predators (primarily Cougars in the Purcells) and got eaten, and here we are in the predicament we're in today. All the biologists agree that predation was the cause of the Caribou decline. A 6 year radio collar study in the South Purcells in the mid 90's showed zero Caribou mortality between December and May. They didn't die in the winter, they got eaten in the summer! We get thrown in there because we're an easy target for the Enviro's.....well, I don't think they consider us "easy" any more!

Geez, I know wayyyyy more about Caribou than I ever wanted too!!