Germany has been banning homeschool for years...not it comes to a theatre near you

H2SNOW

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WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Homeschoolers ordered into public classrooms
Judge: Children need more 'focus' despite testing above grade levels

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Posted: March 11, 2009
11:25 pm Eastern



By Bob Unruh



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WorldNetDaily

A North Carolina judge has ordered three children to attend public schools this fall because the homeschooling their mother has provided over the last four years needs to be "challenged."

The children, however, have tested above their grade levels – by as much as two years.

The decision is raising eyebrows among homeschooling families, and one friend of the mother has launched a website to publicize the issue.

The ruling was made by Judge Ned Mangum of Wake County, who was handling a divorce proceeding for Thomas and Venessa Mills.

(Story continues below)


A statement released by a publicist working for the mother, whose children now are 10, 11 and 12, said Mangum stripped her of her right to decide what is best for her children's education.

The judge, when contacted by WND, explained his goal in ordering the children to register and attend a public school was to make sure they have a "more well-rounded education."

"I thought Ms. Mills had done a good job [in homeschooling]," he said. "It was great for them to have that access, and [I had] no problems with homeschooling. I said public schooling would be a good complement."

The judge said the husband has not been supportive of his wife's homeschooling, and "it accomplished its purposes. It now was appropriate to have them back in public school."

"EXPELLED": Get the hot new documentary that is blowing the lid off censorship of ideas in American universities - particularly anything to do with the fact that God might actually exist.

Mangum said he made the determination on his guiding principle, "What's in the best interest of the minor children," and conceded it was putting his judgment in place of the mother's.

And he said that while he expressed his opinion from the bench in the court hearing, the final written order had not yet been signed.

However, the practice of a judge replacing a parent's judgment with his own regarding homeschooling was argued recently when a court panel in California ruled that a family would no longer be allowed to homeschool their own children.

WND reported extensively when the ruling was released in February 2008, alarming homeschool advocates nationwide because of its potential ramifications.

Ultimately, the 2nd Appellate District Court in Los Angeles reversed its own order, affirming the rights of California parents to homeschool their children if they choose.

The court, which earlier had opined that only credentialed teachers could properly educate children, was faced with a flood of friend-of-the-court briefs representing individuals and groups, including Congress members.

The conclusion ultimately was that parents, not the state, would decide where children are educated.

The California opinion said state law permits homeschooling "as a species of private school education" but that statutory permission for parents to teach their own children could be "overridden in order to protect the safety of a child who has been declared dependent."

In the North Carolina case, Adam Cothes, a spokesman for the mother, said the children routinely had been testing at up to two years above their grade level, were involved in swim team and other activities and events outside their home and had taken leadership roles in history club events.

On her website, family friend Robyn Williams said Mangum stated his decision was not ideologically or religiously motivated but that ordering the children into public schools would "challenge the ideas you've taught them."

Williams, a homeschool mother of four herself, said, "I have never seen such injustice and such a direct attack against homeschool."

"This judge clearly took personal issue with Venessa's stance on education and faith, even though her children are doing great. If her right to homeschool can be taken away so easily, what will this mean for homeschoolers state wide, or even nationally?" Williams asked.

Williams said she's trying to rally homeschoolers across the nation to defend their rights as Americans and parents to educate their own children.

Williams told WND the public school order was the worst possible outcome for Ms. Mills, who had made it clear she felt it was important to her children that she continue homeschooling.

According to Williams' website, the judge also ordered a mental health evaluation for the mother – but not the father – as part of the divorce proceedings, in what Williams described as an attack on the "mother's conservative Christian beliefs."

According to a proposed but as-yet unsigned order submitted by the father's lawyer to Mangum, "The children have thrived in homeschool for the past four years, but need the broader focus and socialization available to them in public school. The Court finds that it is in the children's best interest to continue their homeschooling through the end of the current school year, but to begin attending public school at the beginning of the 2009-2010 instructional year."

The order proposed by the father's lawyer also conceded the reason for the divorce was the father's "adultery," but it specifically said the father would not pay for homeschooling expenses for his children.

The order also stated, "Defendant believes that plaintiff is a nurturing mother who loves the children. Defendant believes that plaintiff has done a good job with the homeschooling of the children, although he does not believe that continued homeschooling is in the best interest of the children."

The website said the judge also said public school would "prepare these kids for the real world and college" and allow them "socialization."

Williams said the mother originally moved into a homeschool schedule because the children were not doing as well as she hoped at the local public schools.

In last year's dispute in California, the ruling that eventually was released was praised by pro-family organizations.

"We're pleased the appeals court recognized the rights of parents to provide education for their children," said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice. "This decision reaffirms the constitutional right that's afforded to parents in directing the education of their children. It's an important victory for families who cherish the freedom to ensure that their children receive a high quality education that is inherent in homeschooling."

"Parents have a constitutional right to make educational choices for their children," said Alliance Defense Fund Senior Counsel Gary McCaleb. "Thousands of California families have educated their children successfully through homeschooling. We're pleased with the court's decision, which protects the rights of families and protects an avenue of education that has proven to benefit children time and time again.

The North Carolina ruling also resembles a number of rulings handed down against homeschool parents in Germany, where such instruction has been banned since the years of Adolf Hitler's rule.

As WND reported, Wolfgang Drautz, consul general for the Federal Republic of Germany, has commented previously on the issue, contending the government "has a legitimate interest in countering the rise of parallel societies that are based on religion."



"The minister of education does not share your attitudes toward so-called homeschooling," said a government letter in response. "... You complain about the forced school escort of primary school children by the responsible local police officers. ... In order to avoid this in future, the education authority is in conversation with the affected family in order to look for possibilities to bring the religious convictions of the family into line with the unalterable school attendance requirement."


WND also reported recently when a German appeals court tossed out three-month jail terms issued to a mother and father who homeschool their children. But the court also ordered new trials that could leave the parents with similar penalties, according to the Home School Legal Defense Association.

The case involves Juergen and Rosemarie Dudek of Archfeldt, Germany, who last summer received formal notices of their three-month sentences.

The 90-day sentences came about when Hesse State Prosecutor Herwig Muller appealed a lower court's determination of fines for the family. The ruling had imposed fines of about 900 euros, or $1,200, for not sending their children to school

Muller, however, told the parents they shouldn't worry about any fines, since he would "send them to jail," the HSLDA reported.

HSLDA spokesman Michael Donnelly warned the homeschooling battle is far from over in Germany.

"There continue to be signs that the German government is cracking down on homeschooling families," he reported. "A recent letter from one family in southern Germany contained threats from local school authorities that unless the family enrolled their children in school, they would seek fines in excess of 50,000 euros (nearly $70,000), jail time and the removal of custody of the children."

HSLDA officials estimate there are some 400 homeschool families in Germany, virtually all of them either forced into hiding or facing court actions.
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MOMMA

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WOW.!!!!!!!!! Unreal. I can't believe how stupid people can be. Mike, you know how hard homeschooling is on a good day, but the constant pressure from people who know nothing about it amazes me. The big question, OOOOOO are they socialized! They picture homeschooled kids as pasty white nerds locked in a dungeon! For the first time in the history of the Kootenays, homeschooling families put together a basketball team. Both my kids were on it. They were amazing and won, I mean really won, all but one game at a tourney last week. All of the coaches and parents said in dismay,"those are homeschooled kids?" It was funny. We are in a program under the umbrella of the school district. Really the only reason I am in the program is for the great field trips, and the money the kids get for their schooling needs. I struggled with this, as the school board it'self is a mess of politics and power hungry a%# holes who could care less about the kids. It's all about Union politics. I started a music program that had the highest turnout of any of the programs offered. Highschool kids were coming in to jam with the little guys. Although the kids cried, (28 in one class, 12 in the other) they wouldn't let me teach as it was against Union policy.
Our Liason teacher is wonderful though, and really loves the kids. She comes out to our home and records everything the are doing, which exceeds curriculum requirements. The kids get P.E. Credit for Archery, Hiking and Fishing, quadding.
Homeschooling isn't for everyone, when it doesn't work, it really really doesn't work. When it does, it is spectacular. The kids are spectacular!
 

Mayfly

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Yes, we homeschooled our kids for a couple of years, or should I say the wife did all the work. I was in charge of field trips (huntin, fishin, sleddin, skiing).
Our son was one of the top students in his grade every year, the daughter struggled and would fall behind in class.
The problem was our son's new teacher (old and should have retired) she believed in punishing the whole class if only a few were the problem, and his marks suffered. Our daughter was slowly falling behind and the wife had enough and pulled them out.
It was the best thing for our daughter, as she gained her confidence back. It was great, as I work oilfield and was home, sometimes during the week, so would get to see my kids all the time. I would take them on trips and we would bring along the school work and do it during the evening.
They are back in school and doing very well and would recommend it to anyone thinking of doing it.
 

Summiteer

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you should slide over to snowest where I double posted this for kicks ..all you get is ignoranuses ..that spout crap ...and don't even have kids ???

People without kids are perfect parents...I know, I are one....:d:d
 

MOMMA

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People without kids are perfect parents...I know, I are one....:d:d

Hee hee.. That's exactly it. I was given so much grief during my years as a parent. I breastfed my kids which so many people even in my famly, were against. Much easier breastfeeding a kid when you're up the creek fishing than having to pack bottles! hee hee. Homeschooling, I get it from all sides, usually from people who don't have kids and have never even researched the many ways to homeschool. I have a combination schooling style of traditional schooling with the required books the "normal" kids are using, then I do what is called unschooling. This is where you allow the child freedom to explore and push their own boundaries based upon what intriques them. It's awesome. They asked if our family book could be George Orwells Animal farm. My older kids had this years BC Science curriculum done in August so they could do "real" science. eg. I take each up in the bush on a one on one basis. I give them a camera to take pictures of what intrigues them. They take those pictures home and research what they have photographed. They even classify the organism starting from Kingdom, right down to sub species. When my little guy stepped on a hornets nest while berry picking, the kids, (under my supervision) knew which plants he had to chew to produce an antihistamine like medicine. They then dressed his wounds with moss. He was good to go for the rest of the day. Thats bush schooling!
 

H2SNOW

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Hee hee.. That's exactly it. I was given so much grief during my years as a parent. I breastfed my kids which so many people even in my famly, were against. Much easier breastfeeding a kid when you're up the creek fishing than having to pack bottles! hee hee. Homeschooling, I get it from all sides, usually from people who don't have kids and have never even researched the many ways to homeschool. I have a combination schooling style of traditional schooling with the required books the "normal" kids are using, then I do what is called unschooling. This is where you allow the child freedom to explore and push their own boundaries based upon what intriques them. It's awesome. They asked if our family book could be George Orwells Animal farm. My older kids had this years BC Science curriculum done in August so they could do "real" science. eg. I take each up in the bush on a one on one basis. I give them a camera to take pictures of what intrigues them. They take those pictures home and research what they have photographed. They even classify the organism starting from Kingdom, right down to sub species. When my little guy stepped on a hornets nest while berry picking, the kids, (under my supervision) knew which plants he had to chew to produce an antihistamine like medicine. They then dressed his wounds with moss. He was good to go for the rest of the day. Thats bush schooling! MAN !!

fixed it fer ya ;)
 

MOMMA

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OHHHHH MYYYYYYY GOSHHHHHHHHHHH! I was just over on snow west reading the crap over there about homeschooling. The Social aspect of school. What, so we throw our kids into a Lord of the flies environment where their peers become the model for their morals and values? People will argue that homeschooled children are sheltered from "life", I disagree, my children interact with people everyday. They have businesses, and activities that take them into society where they carry themselves with grace and dignity. They have compassion for everyone and spend much of their free time helping out elderly people and people who are ill or disabled in our community. They never ask for a dime, and enjoy the opportunity to give and share of themselves. Not saying that public kids don't do that or that my children are "better than" public school kids, just making a point that socialization isn't just about playing with other kids.
 

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:d You did not read my response then H2Snowwy

I read your post over there Grizzly Adams, and you're right. When homeschooling doesn't work it is a disaster. I've seen it. It takes a huge effort from parents, extended family, friends and sometimes people within the education system to ensure the children are getting the most of their education and life experience. It really does take a village.:d
 

DRD

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First year of home school for us. Even in our immediate area there are more familes homeschooling than I ever imagined. The amount of resources available also surpassed my expectations. It's much different than the hill billy Ozark mountian stereotype that people have.
 

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i didnt really read all of it

let me ask you

how does normal homeshooling look like in canada ?


cause that there is no homeshooling in germany is not right !
i could explain later if i would know how it looks like in canada
 

MOMMA

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i didnt really read all of it

let me ask you

how does normal homeshooling look like in canada ?


cause that there is no homeshooling in germany is not right !
i could explain later if i would know how it looks like in canada

Hee hee Fossy, I think the last thing I would call homeschooling families is normal. There are a few schools of thought. One style, the family sets up a schoolroom type atmosphere where the children do various subjects at a scheduled time. That one isn't me. Some just let their children experience life and decide for themselves when they want to learn math and language arts skills. That isn't me. Some focus on a Christian type homeschooling curriculum, some utilize public school curriculum. There are a variety of styles. I utilize public school materials as well as reference materials from a variety of other sources. For example, in BC as part of the Learning outcomes decided by the board of education, grade 7 kids need to learn about ancient civilizations. Instead of getting the school's social studies material, asked them to find information from as many sources as they could about Ancient Rome/China, etc. They pulled information from the Library, movie store, internet and books we had at home and presented written, verbal and slide shows on the computer about each civilization. They found the BC science textbook/workbook to be boring and actually incorrect. My son who is 10 is crazy about electricity underlined the errors and took them to his liason teacher. I found a mentor to help him with electronics instead. We bought him a sodering gun so he could build a robot, and he did, named Tony. He also loves math, so being as his sister is in Grade 7 he does grade 7 and 8 math with her.
I hope that helps.
 

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I think it all depends on the kids and the parents. I don't think I could ever do it, but if those kids were doing good then why throw them into an enviroment that will throw them off. I think alot of people get the wrong opinion of home schooled kids because society usually sees them in films like Jesus Camp and alot of radical right wingers home school
 

FossY

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i see i see sleddingmom

so im guessing its kinda right than that there is no homeshool in germany

its actually called private shool where a teacher is comming to your home schooling your kids on dayli basis
which is not that common in germany due to that its extreme expensive


they did quiet some tests and tv shows in europe about the whole schooling system and it was very interesting
they pretty much compared iq levels of kids from different countries arround europe and compared them blabla long story short
lots of peeps amazed that some countries like spain and norway have such a good education
i think germany finished 19th out of 80 countries or so


now about the homeshooling here the qay i see it now

by no affence

i think the way you describe it sleddingmom you doing a good job :)


but i think some familys think there doing a good job but actually on the cost of the kid
i just think in life today a kid with no finished school diploma or something like that will have it quiet hard in life or not ?

correct me in anything i mighte got wrong

but how is the world out there ???

everything is based on numbers and papers

you dont have anything to show youre pretty much nothing (in the hard way)

thats pretty much the reason i "endet" up in canada
finished school in germany
learned mechanic 3,5 years
than my boss told me he cant keep me cause of the low industrie
than i got offered 11.27euros an hour by sending out all my stuff
cause all there looking for is 25year old peeps with 30years expirience
so nobody gives you a chance at all

but thats a little away from the actuall thread hear


i just think in the world today how it gets lived and handled homeshooling the way i understand it could very well seen in 2 different ways
 

MOMMA

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i see i see sleddingmom

so im guessing its kinda right than that there is no homeshool in germany

its actually called private shool where a teacher is comming to your home schooling your kids on dayli basis
which is not that common in germany due to that its extreme expensive


they did quiet some tests and tv shows in europe about the whole schooling system and it was very interesting
they pretty much compared iq levels of kids from different countries arround europe and compared them blabla long story short
lots of peeps amazed that some countries like spain and norway have such a good education
i think germany finished 19th out of 80 countries or so


now about the homeshooling here the qay i see it now

by no affence

i think the way you describe it sleddingmom you doing a good job :)


but i think some familys think there doing a good job but actually on the cost of the kid
i just think in life today a kid with no finished school diploma or something like that will have it quiet hard in life or not ?

correct me in anything i mighte got wrong

but how is the world out there ???

everything is based on numbers and papers

you dont have anything to show youre pretty much nothing (in the hard way)

thats pretty much the reason i "endet" up in canada
finished school in germany
learned mechanic 3,5 years
than my boss told me he cant keep me cause of the low industrie
than i got offered 11.27euros an hour by sending out all my stuff
cause all there looking for is 25year old peeps with 30years expirience
so nobody gives you a chance at all

but thats a little away from the actuall thread hear


i just think in the world today how it gets lived and handled homeshooling the way i understand it could very well seen in 2 different ways


Indeed it can be a fine line. The blessing in our situation is that the kids will receive their diploma and have access to numerous scholorships for University. The children take the same exams as kids in the regular highschool, the only difference is they learn the material from home. They can actually begin some University studies early. My older kids are investigating their post secondary education already. We are regulated quite strictly. We (our homeschooling program) were audited last year and every student came through with flying colors. Our liason teacher comes to our home once in a while, but we have to submit "evidence of learning" every three monthes.
I had always wanted to homeschool but another reason for doing so is directly related to drugs and sexual activities that infect not only the high school but the primary school too. Grade 12 boys "innitiating" young grade 8 girls by receiving sexual favors. Contests as to who can give and receive the most oral sex. Crazy numbers of STDs and pregnancy. I don't think my kids would participate in such activities, but none the less, I really believe they deserve the opportunity to be children, be obsessed with their horses rather than finding validation from which boy likes them.
 
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