For those that don't carry a spot,inreach or sat phone why not?
- Thread starter RGM
- Start date
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
I carry an Inreach, it has allowed me to send messages from the mountain before allowing people who I check in with know I would be late.
It would be nice to open some old discussions on a standard GMRS radio channel for people to tune into again should they need assistance. I don't know the SAR's groups interest on that, but a repeater based channel from 15-22 that is standard which if you broadcast on should you get into a situation and SAR has the ability to monitor it if they are called out could be helpful from first glance. Its been discussed before but hasn't gained any ground. If more and more people knew that channel 20 as has been used in the past is for these situations it could help.
It would be nice to open some old discussions on a standard GMRS radio channel for people to tune into again should they need assistance. I don't know the SAR's groups interest on that, but a repeater based channel from 15-22 that is standard which if you broadcast on should you get into a situation and SAR has the ability to monitor it if they are called out could be helpful from first glance. Its been discussed before but hasn't gained any ground. If more and more people knew that channel 20 as has been used in the past is for these situations it could help.
RXN
Active VIP Member
I just bought one.
But for years I didn't have.
I ran with the attitude "it wont happen to me" and "I'm smarter than that".
Arrogant eh.
Well now I have a machine that can take me further then my older ones. Which opens up a whole new world of more trouble should something happen.
And after years, sticking close to the cabin gets old.
A few years back I went with a spot connect. Did a 1 year subscription. Was not happy with it.
Beginning of this year I was going to get the Inreach explorer +.
But ended up with garmins rhino 700.
2 reasons.
1 - I like the buddy find feature and figured to be able to located individuals of my group was important. And of course out of the 6 of us. Only 2 have. Shows how well that'll work.
Second reason. I really didn't want monthly payments.
Well after my refresher of my AST1 a little light bulb clicked on. When Lori said "what's your plan B?"
So after letting that sink in I went out and got the Inreach SE + and the topo phone app for it. Glad I did.
I understand it's not a quick rescue guarantee. I've been involved with a SAR event once. It was a 5 hr wait before the paramedics showed up.
I got it more for the piece of mind. When I tell my wife I'll be back at the rooms by 7, and I'm not. I want to message her as to why. Either all good machine issues. Or oops made a big mistake. Spending the night. The SOS beacon is more of a bonus feature. As I would much rather self rescue over have people risk themselves looking for me.
Thinking back to 2012 when that kid in our group broke his femur. Had we had an inreach we would have saved probably a good 30 minutes.
We wanted time trying to get cell reception on little belle. Before 2 of us rode down to the scarecrow to borrow a phone.
So yeah my attitude is changing. Have the gear. Dont rely on it
But have it just in case.
And one other thing I'm going to start doing.
I'm leaving a sheet of paper on my dash. With large easy to read font.
It has my first name
The two radio channels I keep my radio on.
It has my Inreaches number
And brief description of my sled.
Should something happen, gives the people looking for me a better chance at finding me, assuming they clean the snow off my truck windshield and look inside and assuming both radio and Inreach batteries aren't dead.
But for years I didn't have.
I ran with the attitude "it wont happen to me" and "I'm smarter than that".
Arrogant eh.
Well now I have a machine that can take me further then my older ones. Which opens up a whole new world of more trouble should something happen.
And after years, sticking close to the cabin gets old.
A few years back I went with a spot connect. Did a 1 year subscription. Was not happy with it.
Beginning of this year I was going to get the Inreach explorer +.
But ended up with garmins rhino 700.
2 reasons.
1 - I like the buddy find feature and figured to be able to located individuals of my group was important. And of course out of the 6 of us. Only 2 have. Shows how well that'll work.
Second reason. I really didn't want monthly payments.
Well after my refresher of my AST1 a little light bulb clicked on. When Lori said "what's your plan B?"
So after letting that sink in I went out and got the Inreach SE + and the topo phone app for it. Glad I did.
I understand it's not a quick rescue guarantee. I've been involved with a SAR event once. It was a 5 hr wait before the paramedics showed up.
I got it more for the piece of mind. When I tell my wife I'll be back at the rooms by 7, and I'm not. I want to message her as to why. Either all good machine issues. Or oops made a big mistake. Spending the night. The SOS beacon is more of a bonus feature. As I would much rather self rescue over have people risk themselves looking for me.
Thinking back to 2012 when that kid in our group broke his femur. Had we had an inreach we would have saved probably a good 30 minutes.
We wanted time trying to get cell reception on little belle. Before 2 of us rode down to the scarecrow to borrow a phone.
So yeah my attitude is changing. Have the gear. Dont rely on it
But have it just in case.
And one other thing I'm going to start doing.
I'm leaving a sheet of paper on my dash. With large easy to read font.
It has my first name
The two radio channels I keep my radio on.
It has my Inreaches number
And brief description of my sled.
Should something happen, gives the people looking for me a better chance at finding me, assuming they clean the snow off my truck windshield and look inside and assuming both radio and Inreach batteries aren't dead.
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This one time in Golden we got back to the truck and some idiot parked his outfit in the middle of the road so no could get by him. Took my inreach and told the wife what happened and all was good. Sure like the two way communication.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
I wouldn’t feel comfortable riding without my spot actually, my wife gives me crap when I dont send a ok message to her. Lol
But no in all seriousness its a invaluable tool to have.
But no in all seriousness its a invaluable tool to have.
kanedog
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Your wife gives you crap regardless. Smarten up.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
Ahh she’s pretty good, Im still sledding.
oler1234
Active VIP Member
I don’t have one and don’t plan too anytime soon
reason: I have seen it fail on all accounts that it was required. And that would be 7 accounts of failures.
If anyone remembers the hope avalanche incident back in 2012, there was 5 spots signaled and no response.
another one was up silver mines, guy broke his leg, no response
had 2 spots fail in the same day when I was getting out late to message those that knew
My current methods are old school and simple. Let someone or people know where your going, be descript, and let them know the time out. And be sure to head into the backcountry with skilled individuals you can rely on even in the thick. Generally speaking your still on your own even signalled that day. It takes time for SAR to mobilize, come up with a plan, equipment necessary, mode of transport, situations, etc.
In the future I will be looking into a SAT phone. At least you are talking to someone on the other end and can give situation details and get answers. Dispatchers whom are highly resourced into helping your current situation.
reason: I have seen it fail on all accounts that it was required. And that would be 7 accounts of failures.
If anyone remembers the hope avalanche incident back in 2012, there was 5 spots signaled and no response.
another one was up silver mines, guy broke his leg, no response
had 2 spots fail in the same day when I was getting out late to message those that knew
My current methods are old school and simple. Let someone or people know where your going, be descript, and let them know the time out. And be sure to head into the backcountry with skilled individuals you can rely on even in the thick. Generally speaking your still on your own even signalled that day. It takes time for SAR to mobilize, come up with a plan, equipment necessary, mode of transport, situations, etc.
In the future I will be looking into a SAT phone. At least you are talking to someone on the other end and can give situation details and get answers. Dispatchers whom are highly resourced into helping your current situation.
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takethebounce
Active VIP Member
In the four years of using my Inreach, sending countless messages and receiving ones in return it hasn't failed. I am not using it as a life saving device though but a tool to have communication, a Sat phone would be nice but I like the tracking feature that allows my girlfriend or anyone else I send the link to have an idea of my location. Nothing is a fail safe, not a Sat phone, not an emergency locator beacon which are very expensive last I checked when I was purchasing some for a light aircraft. The Spot hasn't had the best reviews over the years, people still have issues with the Inreach I had read though not as many. Garmin bought Inreach from Delorme because it is a good product but again its not %100 and given some of the areas we ride, more remote portions of BC where there isn't always a SAR group ready and available like some other areas using good judgement will always be more valuable than any electronic device.
had to find my link: If I was looking at a SAT phone, which I have I might go with something like this https://www.canadasatellite.ca/Iridium-GO-WiFi-Smartphone-Adapter-p/Iridium-GO-WiFi-Adapter.htm
Slightly cheaper, can pair it with my phone, I realize my Phone could die but everyone has a phone on them. Hard to say, I would have to weight the pros and cons on it.
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LUCKY 7
Active VIP Member
so 10 years ago almost to the day 8 sparwood sledders died. 11 guys went out and 3 returned. the 3 that returned were rescued due to the fact that one sledder had a spot. after the first avi happened the one sledder that was not buried activated his spot. minutes later another avi happened and the whole group got caught in it. SAR along with his buddies were notified due to his SPOT!!!!.These 3 guys made it out alive and didn't have to spent a night out there due to the spot. all the sleds were gone. most of their gear were gone. the sledder that had just got his spot from his wife as a christmas gift died out there but he saved his 3 buddies and imo is a hero. I sled with that guys dad and has spent many times listening to him talk about his son and that day. Would the 3 made it out alive without the SAR coming? who knows??? but the facts are real and many lives were changed that day. I have a spot and will be getting a inreach very soon. my buddy Ferniesnow has his opinions about many things and I may not agree with him on a few but he is 100% correct on the fact that these devices SAVE lives and we both agree that we won't be out there without some type of device to be able to communicate with the outside world. It everyone's choice to wear a beacon, carry a cell phone, carry a shovel etc but these things save lives so why not have them???
ferniesnow
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You've read it above about the SPOT not being reliable and failing in various incidents. I was one of those SPOT subscribers. Too many dead spots deep in the bush behind various mountains. If a device is looking for a satellite, it is great to be in the alpine. It is great to have the most satellites on your device. The Globalstar network is not as comprehensive as the Iridium network (IMHO). In our situation in the deep woods of south eastern BC, with minimal alpine and lots of situations where the mountains are in the southern sky, the SPOT reception is not the best choice. I know this from experience and years ago discussed this point with many S&M members living in central/northern Alberta. I am working on a lot of hindsight/experience and prefer the inReach devices due to the fact that they have never let me down. I have never had to use the SOS feature and pray to God that I never will. This is not about which device is better for the general population but rather why I use what I use.
Here is how I use my inReach. I have my list of contacts; family members and riding buddies who are who I would depend on to come and help. I use it summer and winter. In the winter I use the 3 pre-set messages; I am starting my trip now, I am going to be late but I am okay, and I am back at the truck and on my way home. The first message tells my buddies where I am staging and the area that I am riding in. My buddies know that if I use the "I'm going to be late" message, it is something mechanical or something we are dealing with and can deal with. The third message tells them that I am finished for the day in my truck. I use the buddy system and it would be a real emergency that I would call S&R. We would try everything we could to self-rescue within our group and within my list of contacts. I know helicopters don't fly at night and S&R may have difficulty getting to us in some situations (that part is getting better in this corner of the world), so we are prepared to stay the night if we have to. I can communicate with my buddies and let them know the situation. They will come and help if required. It is a reciprocal agreement and we look out for each other even though we would be riding different areas at different times.
Should everyone carry some form of communication/emergency device? That is their choice but if they don't have one they better be prepared and have the skills to look after themselves. It is a long walk and can be a long cold walk if there is nobody to rescue you. All these young people forget that their mother isn't there to look after them and that most likely, there may not be cell service........."what, I have no service?????"
In the summer, when we use the holiday trailer, I change the contacts and let family know that in the morning I am enjoying a view and having our morning coffee. At then end of the day, I let them know that I am back at the trailer for happy hour. That way, if something happens to us, there is a place to start the search. If we are hiking, we also carry the inReach with us. In a mall not so much but it may be getting to that point in life with all the crack pots that are around.
In the event of a medical emergency (serious broken bones or heart failure), one has to have the skills to be able to hold out until S&R gets there. That is dependant on the team of S&R and some of those teams are better than others. One should know without having to learn the hard way as it can be very dramatic waiting and hoping. If it is an avalanche with burials, it will have to be self-rescue if you want people to live. Otherwise, by the time S&R gets there it will most likely be a retrieval. By the time the SOS button is tripped, Texas is notified, an emergency contact is notified for verification, the RCMP are notified, then S&R is notified, and then the S&M members are notified, prepared, and mobilized, it will be quite awhile for that help to get to where you want them to be. Back-country people have to be prepared for the worst and trained with skills that keep one comfortable under adverse situations.
S&R have come a long way from 20 years ago and do a great job. I feel sorry for them, putting their lives on the line, when they have to rescue idiots. But surely, there must be a way to educate people about the hazards of back-country travel and the extreme cost of unnecessary rescue. But then, I guess it is like the 911 calls that people are doing these days.
Here is how I use my inReach. I have my list of contacts; family members and riding buddies who are who I would depend on to come and help. I use it summer and winter. In the winter I use the 3 pre-set messages; I am starting my trip now, I am going to be late but I am okay, and I am back at the truck and on my way home. The first message tells my buddies where I am staging and the area that I am riding in. My buddies know that if I use the "I'm going to be late" message, it is something mechanical or something we are dealing with and can deal with. The third message tells them that I am finished for the day in my truck. I use the buddy system and it would be a real emergency that I would call S&R. We would try everything we could to self-rescue within our group and within my list of contacts. I know helicopters don't fly at night and S&R may have difficulty getting to us in some situations (that part is getting better in this corner of the world), so we are prepared to stay the night if we have to. I can communicate with my buddies and let them know the situation. They will come and help if required. It is a reciprocal agreement and we look out for each other even though we would be riding different areas at different times.
Should everyone carry some form of communication/emergency device? That is their choice but if they don't have one they better be prepared and have the skills to look after themselves. It is a long walk and can be a long cold walk if there is nobody to rescue you. All these young people forget that their mother isn't there to look after them and that most likely, there may not be cell service........."what, I have no service?????"
In the summer, when we use the holiday trailer, I change the contacts and let family know that in the morning I am enjoying a view and having our morning coffee. At then end of the day, I let them know that I am back at the trailer for happy hour. That way, if something happens to us, there is a place to start the search. If we are hiking, we also carry the inReach with us. In a mall not so much but it may be getting to that point in life with all the crack pots that are around.
In the event of a medical emergency (serious broken bones or heart failure), one has to have the skills to be able to hold out until S&R gets there. That is dependant on the team of S&R and some of those teams are better than others. One should know without having to learn the hard way as it can be very dramatic waiting and hoping. If it is an avalanche with burials, it will have to be self-rescue if you want people to live. Otherwise, by the time S&R gets there it will most likely be a retrieval. By the time the SOS button is tripped, Texas is notified, an emergency contact is notified for verification, the RCMP are notified, then S&R is notified, and then the S&M members are notified, prepared, and mobilized, it will be quite awhile for that help to get to where you want them to be. Back-country people have to be prepared for the worst and trained with skills that keep one comfortable under adverse situations.
S&R have come a long way from 20 years ago and do a great job. I feel sorry for them, putting their lives on the line, when they have to rescue idiots. But surely, there must be a way to educate people about the hazards of back-country travel and the extreme cost of unnecessary rescue. But then, I guess it is like the 911 calls that people are doing these days.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
If I dont send a test message when Im in a new area it takes forever for the message to send or the message will fail, it even mentions that in the spot instructions.
At the end of the day, a person should not rely on technology.
At the end of the day, a person should not rely on technology.
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skegpro
Active VIP Member
I don't think you should compare the first gen spot with the latest generation inreach or spot x.
For one these are two way devices so you can communicate with someone you left your trip plan with.
Technology has come along ways since1965.
Vipertonytro
Active VIP Member
I used to use the spot but found it took forever to send or not at all. switched to In-reach and its flawless. I send my wife an ok text at lunch and if we are going to be later than scheduled i send her an update text. She can also text me if something was ever wrong at home. Hopefully I never have to use the SOS function but if we ever need it Ill be thankful I have the option. My buddies won't buy one because they think I have one and they are good. But they don't always ride with me so I hope they never get in a situation that they need help. In my opinion its priceless and I won't ride anywhere without it. For those who say its too expensive.....Most have a $50,000 truck $15,000 sled, and Probably $15,000 in gear, deck,trailer as a minimum. Pretty cheap insurance to have comunication.
canuck5
Active VIP Member
The human factor is a big deal too. Hearing stress in a persons voice can be the difference between were on our way and we will try in the morning. I’m a fan of the Sat phone.
- Thread starter
- #18
When I started my tour company and took my first avy course back in 2003 not many people carried avy gear. A shovel back then was to dig your sled out. I started selling avy gear back then and encouraged people to take courses. Now most people have the gear yet way more still need to take an avy course. Running a tour operation having a sat phone was a must but now having outside communication for the public in my opinion is a must. When I started having clients carrying Baofeng radios a few years ago it was a big improvement in keeping track of them. Now most outfits supply radios to their clients. It has been a progression over the years from having avy gear, having the knowledge, sat communications and now group communications. I would think it will just be a few years before everyone is carrying a radio. Sat communications is still expensive but a least someone in a group should carry one. Maybe down the road more clubs will put up repeaters and sat comms won't be needed as much.
takethebounce
Active VIP Member
Technology will continue to evolve and the more people make use of it the more it creates a market.
I read a couple of years ago Rino considered dropping the Rino line completely. The military, (assuming the US) convinced them to continue with the technology. I guess some of their units use Rinos as it’s reliable enough for their needs.
There are new UHF radios (frs/gmrs capable) that now transmit location via GPS satellites to users of the same system. It gives you coordinates and distance to the users/contacts. It could only be a matter of time that they go to a map based display and could give you another option over the Rinos. https://www.gpscentral.ca/products/alinco/dj-md5tgp.html
I am not saying it’s better than a Rino or a standard Baofeng radio but something to watch and see if the tech grows. Garmin purchasing Delorme was significant as Garmin saw the value in satellite tracking/communication in a portable unit. I have spoken to a Garmin development rep not so long ago when they released the new Garmin Inreach and asked about the ability to combine the Rino with Inreach and they saw value in it but felt a couple of things like actual unit cost at retail would be significant, imagine a Rino 750 already costs several hundred and now an Inreach built in for another couple and you have a $1000+ unit. Then battery life would be an issue and you have competing systems using battery power. They didn’t say never but it wouldn’t be soon until they felt the market would be capable of supporting such a device.
I read a couple of years ago Rino considered dropping the Rino line completely. The military, (assuming the US) convinced them to continue with the technology. I guess some of their units use Rinos as it’s reliable enough for their needs.
There are new UHF radios (frs/gmrs capable) that now transmit location via GPS satellites to users of the same system. It gives you coordinates and distance to the users/contacts. It could only be a matter of time that they go to a map based display and could give you another option over the Rinos. https://www.gpscentral.ca/products/alinco/dj-md5tgp.html
I am not saying it’s better than a Rino or a standard Baofeng radio but something to watch and see if the tech grows. Garmin purchasing Delorme was significant as Garmin saw the value in satellite tracking/communication in a portable unit. I have spoken to a Garmin development rep not so long ago when they released the new Garmin Inreach and asked about the ability to combine the Rino with Inreach and they saw value in it but felt a couple of things like actual unit cost at retail would be significant, imagine a Rino 750 already costs several hundred and now an Inreach built in for another couple and you have a $1000+ unit. Then battery life would be an issue and you have competing systems using battery power. They didn’t say never but it wouldn’t be soon until they felt the market would be capable of supporting such a device.
Dr. Crankenstein
Member
RGM Thanks for starting this conversation. I have been on REVSAR for a number of years and I will keep this really simple. We take this volunteer position very seriously. The reasons are obvious - people will perish if we don't find them. It is extremely frustrating to get the call re: a missing or injured party and we have no idea, without coordinates where to begin looking. You would reply, well look in the most obvious places. Experience tells us that there are no obvious places, simply because the people that are lost are also disoriented. North becomes south etc. Oler 1234, I do agree that in the past, Spot service was hit and miss. All this to say, please get a Spot or Inreach or have the ability to communicate your coordinate position. If we have it, we will head straight to you probably wth hot chocolate.
Two more things: 1) Please Buddy up. Be responsible for that one person and know where they are or where they went. (Garmin rhinos). 2) Resist dropping a drainage. STOP! It is unbelievable how many new riders we find who have dropped, and dropped, like our last rescue. Thanks for listening and talk to your friends.
Two more things: 1) Please Buddy up. Be responsible for that one person and know where they are or where they went. (Garmin rhinos). 2) Resist dropping a drainage. STOP! It is unbelievable how many new riders we find who have dropped, and dropped, like our last rescue. Thanks for listening and talk to your friends.
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