2nd PCV Auto-Tuner Working - Numbers Crazy?

[1badhusky]

Got my 2nd autotuner and it's not doing crazy stuff like the first one. So after 3 days of riding, here are my numbers. It's adding crazy amounts of fuel to my low rpms. The sled has a low end sputter that I'm really hoping to get rid of -right where the auto-tuner is adding all the fuel - but the sputter isn't gone. Seems like it may be getting better, but I could just be imagining that. Can these numbers be right?

I limit the trim to 10%, ride, then check the maps and accept the trims - did this 6 times over 3 days and it's maxing out down low almost every time, so looks like there is still more fuel that needs to be added. But should I really be adding 60% more fuel in places?

This is going off of a racin' station base map BTW. Sled has DD Y Pipe, Super Q Can, RKT Head and BDX Intake.

Other than that low end sputter, it runs awesome. And the sputter is just annoying, not like it's preventing a good ride.
But I'd love to tune it out.

 

[tchriste]

I'd say those numbers on top are good, the ones down below are too high (2,5,10,15,and,20%) So it looks like you are running a 2010/11, where is your primary engaging? it appears your adding a ton of fuel below engagement. I don't know what you have for an AFR, most of this heavily fueled area should have numbers in the 14.5 range. You can try only tuning that area, I would start by ensuring a 14.5 AFR and set map for 5% then set range for +- 5% and go and ride an area that has some small hills....ride them up and down, nice and slow throttle movements and let the autotune work.....sometimes what happens is we hit the throttle too hard and the tuner doesn't have enough time to adjust.

Just a thought, is your primary spring broken? Maybe check it because if it is it would explain the high numbers and the sputter.

Good luck.

 

[1badhusky]

it's an 09. my AFR targets are 13.5 - have heard that's where you want to be down low, but open for your insight on why you'd want to go leaner. Primary is engaging around 3400. I spent a good bit of time holding the throttle at 10% through 20% right in the rpm range where it's adding all the fuel.

As it doesn't seem to be fixing it, even with up to 60% more fuel, I'm starting to think maybe it is something other than a fueling issue. Why would a broken primary spring cause sputtering? Would a broken spring cause other issues? It seems to be running very well everywhere else.

 

[Slamnek]

I am running an 09 with the RKT head, stock y-pipe, pipe and super q can with a D&D fire breather intake. Kelsey told me to run my BD box all on zeros for the mountains as he has not had to add any fuel to the RPM ranges. I ran mine for 3 days in Revy and it was rockin. I was very happy with the performance. My AFR was 13-13.8 at WOT. I know i will have to make a map for low elevations but up high you should'nt have to add any fuel to the stock map. I bought the sled with SLP exhaust and Kelsey told me to go back to stock and man was happy i did cuz it runs way better. Listen to what Kelsey tells you, he knows how to make an 800 work wether its a cat, poo or doo. I would send him an email with that map of yours and see what he says, then do what he says regardless of what other shops or people tell you. Not bashing anyones info as it is all appreciated.

 

[tchriste]

Now that I know it's an 09 that makes it easier as I ride a mod 09 HCR. My sled engages at around 4,000 RPM, below 4,000 I am taking away fuel, in fact at 0% 1,750 RPM I'm at -19% running an AFR of 14.3... I think your too rich, 13.5 on the bottom is safe however you could easily go leaner and be safe. This could also be the source of your stumble, my 09 loaded up with the stock mapping and I would have to take a bit of time to clear it when I let it idle too long before I leaded it down.

I've seen broken springs run very well, except at engagement....the reason I was thinking a broken spring is this, when one has a broken spring the load on the engine at engagement, is increased and as the load is increased the need for the engine to make more power goes up. This requires fuel and if one is hitting the throttle hard during that process the autotune will try to dump a ton of fuel to get to the AFR one has set for it. Also when one has a broken spring engagement is lower, so when I saw all the fuel going in below 4,000 RPM I was thinking there might be an issue there.


The other part I noticed is that your map is showing numbers in the 8,250 RPM mark.....the 09 is designed to operate between 7,600-7,800 RPM so that's what led me to believe you had a 2010/11.


My AFR ranges from 14.5 down low to 14.3/2 at engagement to 13.6/4 mid to 13/12.9 at WOT. Check your plugs and piston wash and see what they are telling you....

 

[1badhusky]

That 8250 is a weird thing - my sled tops out at 7700rpms, so I have no idea why it would be adjusting fueling at those rpms. Figured it was just a fluke or something. The issue isn't when I hammer the throttle - if I do that - it takes off and runs like a raped ape w/ no bogging or sputtering. It's only when I'm going really slow at just above engagement at 10-20% throttle that it sputters.

 

[Slamnek]

Kelsey told me with the head and gasket kit i should see 8000-8100. I was right around 8000 and it was working good.

 

[Slamnek]

Now i have been told that 13.5 at WOT is too lean.

 

[summitbound]

I would talk to Eric at Racinstation,good guy to deal with.
I got my Map from him and ran the Autotune also.
I wired in a Switch to turn the Autotune on and off.
I would turn off the Autotune going up and down the Trail,I found it really irratic with No load on the motor.
When I got up the Mountain 5000' and higher,i turned on the Autotune.
Find a Big Long hill with some Deep Snow and make some pull's.
Tchrite is correct you should be revving 7600-7800 Rpm with a 09
Maybe check and see if your clutch Weight's are swinging freely,could affect your engagment at WOT Rpm.
Make sure the Fuel Accel Pump is Disabled

Hope this help's

 

[Team Pigeon]

A couple questions related to auto-tune:
-Has anyone switched from 250 to 5oo rpm intervals? Would this work a bit quicker getting a rough map squared away, then increase the interval at a later point?
-What's the rule of thumb for tome spent in one throttle position?
-Any reason either for or against the big blob of fuel at high rpm/ low throttle position on the slp maps? I noticed Speedwerx doesn't have it.

I don't mean to hijack a thread, we should actually make an M specific PCV sticky...

 

[tchriste]

Hi Steph, first one can use the 500 rpm intervals and the autotune will blend for the areas in between, it's not a bad idea and probably a good way to start.
-As a rule of thumb, the longer one can spend at each throttle location the better the autotune can work and build a map, the problem can be one the areas above and below the specified target...what I mean by this is if you are running at 10% throttle and 5,250 RPM the cells above and below also need to be developed so going up-hill and down hill to develop those areas is required, hitting the throttle hard will only make the autotune think it needs to dump a lot of full to get to the AFR one has set in the specified cells.
-The reason for the big "blob"of fuel you are seeing is for when one is climbing etc and have been one the throttle for awhile....example your doing a big climb....cylinder temps are 1200* and one lets off the throttle quickly, you still have very high temps in the cylinders so the "blob"gives the cylinder a shot of fuel to cool the cylinder down and save it from sticking. On my map I added 20% across the area of 2,5,10,15,20,40,% throttle and 6,000 and up RPM.....I've actually had high temps coming off a mid-range throttle lake run that set off the det sensor and I had to add fuel in an area that had good AFRs and good numbers just so I had cooling......CVT clutching makes it so one has to compromise.


Terry

 

[Team Pigeon]

Just installed my auto tune and LCD on the 1000 the other day- went for a quick 20 minute rip up the trail from my house- I had earmuffs and carharrts on so it wasn't too intense. And I didn't crash like on my test drive last summer-- off work for three months, don't remember a thing, just the ambulance bill.
Anyhow, it took a bit of time to set-up the lcd but it's working real nice. Ordered a pelican type box that RAM builds from GPS CENTRAL in calgary to keep it dry and warm. The touch-screen is real nice to use with a stylus or plastic pen end. AQ2 seems like the proper dimensions.
RAM Holders for PDAs, Cell Phones, iPhones, Laptops & other electronics at GPS Central Canada




Has anyone set up the sled on a dyno where you could simulate different loads- sayy 5-10 different levels of load. I don't know anyone in our area with one. Linderman is the closest that I know with a dyno, not sure of that feature. And for that I'd need some monetary donations haha!

One thing I learnt is that when you have the auto tune running, it makes real-time adjustments. You gotta be sure your AF map is safe to begin with. I was under the impression that when it ran, that it would only come up with recommended trim numbers which you manually approved/accepted- at which point your mapping would change. As long as auto tune is running and you have trim numbers in that table, that's what your sled is running (your map AND the trims)
I was confusing it with the point at where you add the trims to the current map, clear the trim table and start over. Pretty cool, but it's something that's ambiguous in the instructions.


It was also nice to see my 2500mile old AEM AF that Spoon sold me three years ago still reads the same as a new one. I welded a second bung in my can to compare. Will probably remove that system shortly.

Another couple things I'm emailing dynojet about- that you other guys can email to them also:

A) there is no provision/instruction/advice on a battery-less vehicle to make any changes through the LCD. LAME. I gotta run my sled. I asked if I can wire in my own 9V hook-up to do this (like on a bookdocker)- they didn't know what the result would be. I ran out of time to try it myself- had to back to the McMoney. We also discussed that if I were to hook-up external power, the 9v would also go to power the pre-heat on the O2 sensor thus killing the 9V. Unless they can wire/program the 9v power so that the circuit board knows this and wouldn't direct power to the o2 sensor. Or that you unplug the o2 sensor.

B) to provide a direct line to print the fuel table, trim table, AF table. Instead of doing a screen shot every time- soo lame. A simple print feature that you select what tables you wanna print would be pretty sweet.

C) and finally to make MAC compatible software. All in all, it's a $1000 dollar system, and I gotta spend another $300 on a crappy mini laptop.

Just ranting. The maids woke me up at noon....

 

[1badhusky]

Even better would be an iphone/smartphone app for on the fly adjustments.

 

[0neoldfart]

That 8250 is a weird thing - my sled tops out at 7700rpms, so I have no idea why it would be adjusting fueling at those rpms. Figured it was just a fluke or something. The issue isn't when I hammer the throttle - if I do that - it takes off and runs like a raped ape w/ no bogging or sputtering. It's only when I'm going really slow at just above engagement at 10-20% throttle that it sputters.

Sounds as if your TPS is not set right...