Avalanche Centre in Distress

BH06

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Calgary Sun this morning.

Up to $14,000 for the machine, $300 for the helmet, at least as much again for a warm suit, boots and gloves.

Add another $350 for an avalanche beacon and the incidentals needed for a day in the mountains: Food, gas, beverages, maybe a hotel room.

It tallies up, this extreme sport called snowmobiling — it’s a pastime not suited for the faint of heart or faint of wallet.

On the other side of the coin is the vast pile of money needed to rescue sledders on the rare occasion something goes wrong — given manpower, helicopters and hospitals, it can run into the tens of thousands of dollars.

In short, a pile of money goes into snowmobiles, snowmobile culture, and snowmobile rescue.

Money everywhere — and yet somehow, there’s barely a drop for the organization responsible for the safety of Canada’s huge community of sledders.

The Canadian Avalanche Centre, the B.C.-based group charged with monitoring mountain safety and issuing daily slide warnings, is broke.

Last week, on the tail-end of a tumultuous fortnight which resulted in the avalanche deaths of three sledders and two skiers over two weekends in B.C., the CAC issued a quiet plea for help.

“Before the Boulder Mountain incident, I would estimate we were $10,000 in the red,” said John Kelly, operations manager of the Canadian Avalanche Centre.

“I’ve been asked by our board of directors to prepare a budget that brings us back in the black — and most of our expenditures are for salaries.”

At under $1 million, the CAC has a pitifully small budget for an outfit with the invaluable purpose of savings lives.

A total of $800,000 is spent by the avalanche centre every year, with $175,000 coming from the federal government, $150K from the province of B.C. and $100,000 from Alberta.

That’s $425,000: The rest is scraped together through charitable and corporate sponsorship.

The snowmobile industry, which reaps the lion’s share of benefit, contributes a paltry $10,000 a year, split between Bombardier and Yamaha.

Sledders themselves, through private donations, give about $2,000 — a shameful number, given that a single, clapped-out snowmobile costs more.

Cynics might say the number of sledders killed each year proves the snowmobile community isn’t benefiting from the daily avalanche bulletins, because they don’t read them.

And sure, to measure by the fatal fiasco at Boulder Mountain near Revelstoke earlier this month, when dozens were hit by a predictable slide, is to find a community lacking in common sense.

But that’s a discredit to the thousands of sledders who use the B.C. backcountry every weekend without mishap, in large part due to the excellent bulletins issued by the avalanche centre.

They read the reports, listen to the warnings, and come home safe. They don’t pay a dime towards the CAC service, but still.

A report released in January by the B.C. Coroner Service, after the deaths of 19 snowmobilers last winter, praised the CAC bulletins as accurate and effective. It pinpointed a lack of avalanche awareness as the major factor in slide fatalities — if all sledders bothered to read the CAC warnings, there’d be a fraction of the deaths.

It seems an easy way of having fewer body bags carted out of the mountains, and it’s why some connected to the sport are asking for even more avalanche warnings, posted near the hills and in hotels.

It’s a demand for extra service, just as Kelly is looking at possible layoffs and cutbacks.

The Boulder Mountain slide, which killed two Albertans, cost the CAC around $14,000 in overtime and operations, as staff were swarmed with questions and media requests in the wake of the avalanche.

Kelly says that’s on top of the existing shortfall.

Unless more money is found, the CAC is in serious trouble — a great irony, given the multimillion dollar industry that snowmobiles represent to B.C.

“I’ve heard it may even be in the billions, and almost nothing is invested into public safety,” said Kelly.

“It’s really tragic that is the case.”

michael.platt@sunmedia.ca
 

GasCan

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With this I now understand the irony of the financial shortfalls and the costs to operate the center. I would be curious to know how this organisation was started and how they managed early on with must of been a sheer lack of funds then as well. Since their biggest cost is related to payroll, I would also be curious to know if the people there are salaried rather than hourly? In my mind, an association that knows O/T hours are going to be called for during something like a slide where media attention comes into play, I myself would appoint salaried positions so that the odd time they have to put in extra hours in the event of a tragedy are not a cost absorbed by the center?

I am also curious to know where the the ski groups, the BCSF and the ASA come into play here? Do the larger snowmobile and ski associations and governing bodies contribute to the CAC, and do groups that benefit directly from the sledding community kick in? Specifically the towns and society's that are located within the major sledding destinations? I know I have seen a concentrated effort to raise funds on S&M in the past couple weeks and I was very surprised at the support shown (or should I say lack of support shown) from this industry or sport. I contributed a small donation of $250 and posted a thread in two sections of the forum challenging others to match it and was very surprised to see the lack of support by many here. Don't take that out of context folks as we all know how much everyone here appreciates the CAC, but we also need to support them when the chips are down and I didn't see a lot of arms going up. If one cannot contribute financially, maybe an offer to help volunteer time to the center could help?

Sure we are all seeing tougher times out there and I know many cannot afford to fund an extra request, but we all know there are many deep pockets here on the forum with many business owners and managers who could easily contribute a few hundred towards a great cause. I would hope the reality of this group having to downsize would spur others to step up and contribute towards their success or at least help raise the awareness that this center is facing serious challenges themselves. Rally your clubs, riding groups, and associations to help support the CAC and lets get behind this now people! We need the CAC, and they obviously need us!!!

I put this support challenge out to all who ride the mountains, visit their website, and those who can afford a small contribution to show that WE SUPPORT THEM.

Now is the time people...spread the word.
 

GasCan

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I just wrote an email to the sun writer who put that story out. I asked him to contact the governing associations like the BCSF/ASA and the ski industries (including Wiegle) to find out how they support the CAC and to see if they are contributing to the center. I also asked him to stop trying to single sledders out in the media as there are other groups out their that make up 70% of back country use, and identified them so he can get his facts straight before he writes another naive article like this.
 

climbmax

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Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd. has been a corporate supporter for the past 3 years. BRP just came onboard half way through the season. We have tried to pull the Arctic and Polaris people into the financial commitment but they have declined each year. Frustrated? You bet.
Its not as much support as we would all like, but its what we can do to get the bulletins produced and distrubuted as much as possible.
In the fall Team Thunderstruck and Boost Series conducted a Premiere night in Revelstoke with the SRS and Revelstoke club. We raised $750 that night for the CAC and donated to them. A few weeks prior there was a skier premiere in Revy......I don't think they donated any $$ back to the CAC:rolleyes:
We are doing what we can and now I think it is important that we all become members of the CAC on a personal level. If we all did $50 it would make a world of diff to the CAC and the valuable service they provide.
Safe sleddin'
RS
 

smokindave

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Their numbers and the goverment supplyed numbers a far different.Read the goverment report and then lets hear what you have to say.I support the CAC,but it is a non-profit organisation.I'm not trying to start a pizzing match but these numbers do not add up.Is this extra money for wages?Or is there something new that has brought costs up.I am just curious and don't want to start a pizzing match.

Here is a link you may find interesting:
 

ferniesnow

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You can check the CAC major sponsors here:

Sponsors : Community : Canadian Avalanche Centre : avalanche.ca

CAC Supporting members here:

Members : Community : Canadian Avalanche Centre : avalanche.ca

Some names may suprise you.:eek:

Surprised? Not really? Even found Mike's name under "members"! Didn't find his corporate sponsorship though.

Understandably, the clothing outfits for the ski industry are huge. As well as, Canadian Pacific and Teck Coal and good ol' MEC. What surpried me the most?
I didn't find BCSF nor ABC Snow but the executive director of BSCF was a personal contributor. ASA was there; nice!

I agree with Gascan, we spend a lot of cash on this sport which includes machines and accessories to begin with and then the travel. Hotels, meals, refreshments, and fuel costs are huge for trips to the mountains. How much for a group of 4? You figure it out!

Surely, we as a group of users could scratch some coin towards our safety net. Gascan was disappointed with the lack of acceptance to his challenge of $250 for his contribution and so was I. I have the bulletins sent to my mail box and faithfully read and pay attention to them. I appreciate the service and it costs me nothing! Is that fair? No it isn't. I met the challenge and I hope more get the urge.

I could get into a rant and off topic but it is sort of like "the trail pass jumpers"! If the trail isn't perfect or the vendors aren't there they ride for free without a contribution anywhere. Some even ride in the SE, faithfully, after the vendors go home! Enough already!


We can't be seen as tight and unsupportive with our finances. Let's start and show our support with a cheque, credit card payment, or cash to the Canadian Avalanche Centre.
 

kimrick

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My response to the author/reporter in the sun>
Do not be afraid to send an e-mail to him.

Mr. Platt

I am enlightened by your story, but there is some flaws in this story.

There are many people who use the back country and also the Trans Canada highway.

I do not think we be should be centering out any individual back country sector.

It would be nice if you could see the passion to try and get the governments to up the total input they put towards avalanche safety.

As an ex federal employee, there is money put in places that are a waste. I feel the amount the governments are putting towards this viable cause is very minimal to almost trivial amounts.

Why have motor vehicle insurance companies not donated monies? It would appear that their claim cost are down astronomically due to safer highway travel by diligent avalanche control. FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

You never reported on any anonyomous donations? Who might they be? Surviving memeber who has been rescued, surviivng spouse, children?

Lets be proactive instead of reactive and get the government comitted to assist this center more and continue to encourage safety.

They have no problem when it comes to law, regulations, and codes for workers safety.

Thank you

Richard
 

Powder Puff

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Both the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club and Snowmobile Revelstoke Society are members and have been for many yrs. I don`t see their names on that list. Each Jan. the Club and Society host Avalance Awareness Day on Boulder with the CAC and Yamaha. We all donate our time that day to make riders aware. Trail pass fees are waved and sleds are provided by Yamaha to bring the instructors up the hill and back again. Monies from cook outs that day are donated back. This past yr. we changed the date to co-incide with this site`s ride, the deal was to reach more riders comming to the mtns. I know at the banquet that evening this site donated $600 to the CAC. :beer:
Like Randy said at the premier last fall the Club and Society bought a pack, beacon, shovel and probe and it was auctioned off and monies were donated back to the CAC.
We are also lucky enough to have Amber Wood and avy instructor who generously offered a discount to other club members this past Dec. I understand there were close to 40 that signed up. :d
The Club and Society have also been working with gov. and the CAC to provide terrain rating maps to be used with the Avalulator. Boulder is the first mtn. to be rated. This info will be posted at the trailhead and posted in the cabin. I bet those signs will go up soon. ;)
I think we all do what we can to help and there is no mention of any of it.
Last yr. at Avy Awareness Day the instructors commented they were alarmed at how many riders had all the gear but didn`t know how to use it. This yr. the comment was they were impressed to see how many riders had recently taken courses and now knew how to use their gear. I think the incident at Turbo proved that.
Most of us are learning and it shows. Just need to preach to the others.
 

SledMamma

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Just wanted to say Powder Puff, in case no one has told you lately.... YOU ROCK!!
 

rknight111

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Sledders themselves, through private donations, give about $2,000 — a shameful number, given that a single, clapped-out snowmobile costs more.

Hmm, Im sure he took out alot of info to make us look bad. Ive donated $300 myself and When I give a referral over to the Driving Force they donate $100, and ive gotten 2 there. And at Mountain Mania III the CAC got $1725 that was from sledders.
 

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ttpowersports

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Hmm, Im sure he took out alot of info to make us look bad. Ive donated $300 myself and When I give a referral over to the Driving Force they donate $100, and ive gotten 2 there. And at Mountain Mania III the CAC got $1725 that was from sledders.

thats the unfortunate side of media. if nothing negative is printed then they dont sell papers....

Heres a thought, since alberta, bc doesnt have a trail system that the goverment supports. why dont they use a percentage of the monies from licensing revenues on off road vehicles, to go towards this type of program....

?????????????????????????????
 

my mod

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All donations are great, but why not a simple "user pay" system
Increase trail pass by one dollar and 2-3 times a year the club sends the donation of money collected to the CAC. Increase the membership fee by maybe $5.00 and that goes to the CAC. the mony thet they get will be more than enough to keep them going and even improve the system already in place.
This would also show the outside world that we are a responsible group and not a burden to society like many people believe the snowmobiling comunity really is. The more you ride the more you rely on the CAC so the more you donate to them. If you get a membership it will be a maximum of lets say $5.00 for a year of information and each others safety which I think is a small price to pay.
I am going to bring this forward to the club I belong to and see what our members think. If every member and club did this there might even be enough to partially offset some of the costs of emergency responses and avalance rescues.
 

ferniesnow

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All donations are great, but why not a simple "user pay" system
Increase trail pass by one dollar and 2-3 times a year the club sends the donation of money collected to the CAC. Increase the membership fee by maybe $5.00 and that goes to the CAC. the mony thet they get will be more than enough to keep them going and even improve the system already in place.
This would also show the outside world that we are a responsible group and not a burden to society like many people believe the snowmobiling comunity really is. The more you ride the more you rely on the CAC so the more you donate to them. If you get a membership it will be a maximum of lets say $5.00 for a year of information and each others safety which I think is a small price to pay.
I am going to bring this forward to the club I belong to and see what our members think. If every member and club did this there might even be enough to partially offset some of the costs of emergency responses and avalance rescues.

I think it is a good direction just needs some fine tuning.

What do you mean by "trail pass"? If it is the trail pass for grooming, that doesn't pay for itself other than in Revy and they may be able to produce figures that support that. By the time the club pays for operation, maintenance, and trail safety they mostly dip into membership monies to keep the grooming operation solvent. If it is the "trail pass" from the BCSF, that doesn't pay for itself either as they are always broke and have had to borrow money to keep afloat.

For the "user pays" idea, I think the best bet would be for individuals to donate and the individual clubs to also send in a cheque.
 

my mod

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Yes, By trail pass I mean the grooming fee. I know grooming fees do not cover costs, but that is a different conversation. I am suggesting that whatever fee each club is comfortable charging for grooming, whether it be enough or not for grooming costs, increase it by one dollar to go to the CAC. I know you are still going to have the regular shortcomings that each club must deal with, but at least it shows that as a sport in general, we realize there is a cost associated with it and we are prepared to help with these costs and maybe this in itself will show that we are a responsible group of people.
I know no matter what we do there are people on both sides that will not see any good in this or in anything positive we do but I think the majority will agree
If we leave it for the individuals to donate it will be only a small portion that will comply just like the boxes for grooming fees left at the start of a trail but if the clubs help the individual make the donation by collection it from them there will be more money for the CAC.
Not many people will take the effort to send in $10.00 for the year because it does not seem like a lot of money and don't realize that if 10,000 snowmobilers did it there would be a lot of mony for the CAC to operate and this would be in everybody's best interest
 

ferniesnow

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Just another idea.....how about a sledder's day or a snowmobile day, or "I support the CAC day" at the beginning of the season. It could be run by the CAC with a special button on S&M, SnowWest, or any other forums with the emphasis of reaching sledders. Donation pots at dealers, trail heads, hotels, etc. It works for the Salvation Army just might work here.....

PS I know that the CAC is represented on this site and just might run with it.
 

YRED4FUN

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Ummm....just a note about the sun article and the 1/2 line where it said "if all sledders bothered to read the CAC warnings there'd be a fraction of the deaths." Hmmm....So the obvious question would be whats stops anyone from reading the CAC warnings and deciding to risk it all anyway? Fast forward to the "Powder Puff" Comment: "This year they (Avalanche Trainers) were impressed to see how many riders had recently taken the courses and now knew how to use their gear. I think the incident at Turbo proved that."
Yep, sure did. What it also may have proved is that if any of those caught in the avalanche or who died and actually took the avy course missed the most important content...How to identify dangerous terrain and avoid it!! The idea is to arm yourself with the necessary equipment in case you happen to require it and to arm yourself with the knowledge about the nature of avalanches so you don't have to use your equipment. Two fatalities out of the number that were at Turbo is indeed a fraction what the total could have been. Seems like the sledding community is still going to have to suffer more fatalities until all aspects of the avalanche training courses are used.
 

Can-Do

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dont think anyone missed it. its not the point of this thread.

there are many other threads that have probably hundreds of your type of comment though, should you wish to go find one dont forget the search option.. :)

though if you have any ideas on funding the CAC and such.. have at her
 

YRED4FUN

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Ummm...just a comment about the 1/2 line in the article that states "- if all sledders bothered to read the CAC warnings there'd be a fraction of the deaths. Hmmm... one has to ask the question then if they did read the warnings, what's to stop them from making a fatal decision anyway?

Fast forward to the comment from Powder Puff, "This year the comment was they (course providers) were impressed to see how many riders had recently taken the courses and now know how to use their gear. I think the incident at Turbo proved that."

Yep... sure did... but unfortunately it also may have proved that those same individuals missed the most important part of the training...how to identify dangerous terrain and avoid it!! The idea about having the gear is to be prepared if and when you may need it. The idea of having the knowledge about avalanches is to make safe decisions so you don't have to use your gear!

I guess two deaths out of the number that were caught in the Turbo slide is a small fraction but it does speak to the fact that apparently there will be more sledding fatalities until the sledders learn how to use all the information taught in the avy courses and start making informed and safe decisions.
 

GasCan

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Ummm...just a comment about the 1/2 line in the article that states "- if all sledders bothered to read the CAC warnings there'd be a fraction of the deaths. Hmmm... one has to ask the question then if they did read the warnings, what's to stop them from making a fatal decision anyway?

Like it stated before, you can post this stuff somewhere else. This thread is about the CAC being financially strapped.Post this stuff in one of the appropriate threads...not here!
 
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