Powder Freaks head and Jaws pipe

new24stroke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
573
Reaction score
80
Location
Hinton AB.
Has anyone ran the Powder Freak head and Jaws pipe combo. Does it work. Let me know. Im really thinking about it. Thanks
 

Caper11

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
7,161
Reaction score
12,515
Location
Edson,Alberta
Has anyone ran the Powder Freak head and Jaws pipe combo. Does it work. Let me know. Im really thinking about it. Thanks

IF you do that combo, pair the pipe and the head to the lowest elevation you will ride at.
Low elevation pipe, and head for example.
If it was me I would just stick to the pipe.
 

highlandrider

Active member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
52
Reaction score
32
Location
Grande Prairie
I am running just the Jaws pipe and can. dyno'd at 171 hp at 7950 rpm at 2000' elevation- running with the turbos up to 5000' no problem. 2020 850 165 Expert
 

NoBrakes!

Active VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
3,986
Reaction score
6,649
Location
Edmonton
up to 5000'? lol some of the cabins are at that elevation no?

I have a '19 freeride and been drooling on this combo for a while... something kind of like an SLP stage kit would be nice but using things that work well and last....
 

1200

Active VIP Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
382
Reaction score
422
Location
k town
My buddy run the head and pipe waste of time and money maybe 5 hp
 

Tuesdayyx

Active member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
26
Reaction score
28
Location
lacombe
Classic head and pipe claims, but real world is usually closer to what 1200 said.
 

ctd

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
87
Reaction score
178
Location
In Elevation
There is good reason for the combustion chamber design P TEC & E TEC, machining the stock head will give a nice gain in compression. Trying different aftermarket heads over the years, I always ended back with a re machined stock designed cylinder head. The factory design, re machined always maintained & held rpm on long sustained runs.

Same for SLP, day in day out the same repeatable results. Excellent fit & quality build. I have 3000k on my SLP pipe kit, nothing is broken, falling apart or melted. This is with a re machined stock cylinder head.

No bragging dyno numbers, just consistent repeatable performance.

Of course if you don't sort the clutching & alignment the results may vary........this is always first.

My last comment regarding Jaws & ignition timing, I would suggest talking to Greg first prior to following the chatter. Myself I've always had good results with increased compression & stock timing, doing the task of verifying the stock timing is correct.
 

kanedog

Active VIP Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
2,908
Reaction score
7,675
Location
Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
There is good reason for the combustion chamber design P TEC & E TEC, machining the stock head will give a nice gain in compression. Trying different aftermarket heads over the years, I always ended back with a re machined stock designed cylinder head. The factory design, re machined always maintained & held rpm on long sustained runs.
I’ve had the same experience! A tad more snap, not butt kicking Hp gains but the engines stay reliable and go forevs!
I seem to have issues with aftermarket heads.
I know Powderfreaks has a dyno and he is pretty obsessed with good, reliable, quality products. I would give a PF head a try fo sho. I just need maaaaybe 5hp on the top end to help pull my gearing at full shift out and a tiny gear change. I was thinking to take a trip up and do a dyno run with my stock head and then Powderfreaks head.
Not an Etec but I’d do the same with a Doo. Cheers!
 
Last edited:

ctd

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
87
Reaction score
178
Location
In Elevation
Going back to 800HO Summit days we were on the dyno chasing the last few precious HP. One of the many popular aftermarket guys developed the magic cylinder head with magical gains. Fancy re design of the combustion chamber that allowed you to jet way down for big power numbers. By then I had already learned jetting down was most likely a power lose, none the less he was the big name & who was I to question.

Most do not understand dyno results other than a big HP number. Is the gain real? You need to observe additional data.....I will make you crazy for a minute. Is the dyno weather corrected, air pressure, temp & humidity affect the numbers. What are the EGT's doing, they matter. Then there is the very important BSFC, that is fuel flow measure by Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. This one tells you if the motor will live & is sustainable power. If you don't look @ this data & understand what it means & how it applies the HP numbers are not relevant ...crazy yet Ha!

Back to my story, we had machined the stock head after base line runs in stock configuration. Observing the other data we were ready to bolt on the magic power cylinder head. Results were not as advertised, called the guy. Jet down he says, we do as instructed with less than advertised results. We are told to jet down more, looking @ the other data & explaining it to Kelsey we get the BS story about how more efficient the combustion chamber is. Being a grasshopper @ that time I did as instructed & it locked up on the next run, never making the power as advertised.

Dyno is an excellent tool, like any tool it is only as good as the person using it. Lots of data needs to be observed, making it boring as hell other than the big number.
 

Modman

Active VIP Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
5,628
Reaction score
6,524
Location
Castlegar
Lots of the aftermarket stuff is rated with more RPM, so the gains can be made but you gotta swing the pistons and rods into warp speed (or at least faster). Most of these twins will not support piston speeds that high, there is simply too much rotational mass and / or stroke. This was why counter-balanced triples were so popular, 9200-9500 RPM was attainable and the thing would not grenade from rotation (usually from heat though...LOL). The weight trade off was worth it, because a little porting to raise the exhaust port, lower and widen the intake and touch up the transfers, a set of pipes and an 800 RPM increase and you had a friggin' mean machine! Too bad they handled like a bus.

In terms of head design, its all in the squish band and the transition from the chamber now for combustion. How fast and efficient that transition is for flame propagation is the key. slightly more timing advance, little more uniform and complete burn and spent by the time piston reaches top of exhaust port.

The other (and equally important aspect IMO) is cooling (which is so often overlooked). Direct injection is so much more efficient now at fuel delivery and atomization, there is only marginal gains to be had on the combustion side because the combustion temps are high to keep emissions down. IMO - There are more gains to had from combustion chamber cooling design than power increase from compression, unless you significantly raise compression (like 120 octane raise). If its me - going y-pipe and full pipe, I pick a head mainly from a who has a better cooling standpoint because the best bet is to keep the piston domes and rings as cool as possible for consistent temps, you can then run the right kind and amount of fuel for more power and still reduce the high compression heat. Therefore you maintain better scavenging in the pipe since less fuel is burning on its way out, keeping the exhaust side of the piston cooler and avoiding differential thermal expansion, and possible heat soak and piston erosion. May not answer your question but hopefully it gives you some additional considerations.
 

jcjc1

Active member
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
53
Location
Oregon
I am running just the Jaws pipe and can. dyno'd at 171 hp at 7950 rpm at 2000' elevation- running with the turbos up to 5000' no problem. 2020 850 165 Expert
isn't that what about the stock 850 makes according to aftermarket testing? seems i've read multiple posts about the actual 850 HP is greater than the official Doo specs.
 

new24stroke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
573
Reaction score
80
Location
Hinton AB.
So I have heard from Jarad and Duane that running the high compression head with the high altitude pipe was causing some detonation issues. Do you guys think if a guy runs better fuel that would help. They both recommended the low elevation pipe and high elevation head. But I already have the high elevation pipe
 

Caper11

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
7,161
Reaction score
12,515
Location
Edson,Alberta
So I have heard from Jarad and Duane that running the high compression head with the high altitude pipe was causing some detonation issues. Do you guys think if a guy runs better fuel that would help. They both recommended the low elevation pipe and high elevation head. But I already have the high elevation pipe

Nope, you will burn it down.
Design the head and pipe combo for the lowest elevation you will run.

If you have a HE pipe is not hard to turn it to a LE. Duane has more than one head as well. I would do a LE head and LE pipe, most importantly what year is your sled, and do you have the stock can.
 

new24stroke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
573
Reaction score
80
Location
Hinton AB.
Nope, you will burn it down.
Design the head and pipe combo for the lowest elevation you will run.

If you have a HE pipe is not hard to turn it to a LE. Duane has more than one head as well. I would do a LE head and LE pipe, most importantly what year is your sled, and do you have the stock can.
Mine is a 2020
Nope, you will burn it down.
Design the head and pipe combo for the lowest elevation you will run.

If you have a HE pipe is not hard to turn it to a LE. Duane has more than one head as well. I would do a LE head and LE pipe, most importantly what year is your sled, and do you have the stock can.
How would I make it a low elevation pipe
 

Caper11

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
7,161
Reaction score
12,515
Location
Edson,Alberta
2020’s were the ones that have the engine problems.
Take the sleeve out of the pipe outlet.
 

new24stroke

Active VIP Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
573
Reaction score
80
Location
Hinton AB.
2020’s were the ones that have the engine problems.
Take the sleeve out of the pipe outlet.
There is a sleeve. I’m going to look. Thanks
2020’s were the ones that have the engine problems.
Take the sleeve out of the pipe outlet.
Well just went and looked and you are 100 percent correct. So if I take the sleeve out it will make it a low elevation pipe. That’s awesome. Thanks.
 
Top Bottom