Oil and fuel filter life

captain extreme · Oct 30, 2017

Synthetic oils, L5P

Oil - between 30-40% oil life
Fuel - every third oil change
Air - every second oil change or as needed.

the_real_wild1 · Oct 30, 2017

Caper11 said:
Over changing oil a bad thing? Care to explain what you read?

It is, or at least was, one of the biggest things they taught at NAIT and a pile of other engine courses I have taken over the years. The biggest cause of contamination is from the guys working on it, not through other means like intake etc. Any time a valve cover is off, filter changes etc.

LBZ · Oct 30, 2017

the_real_wild1 said:
It is, or at least was, one of the biggest things they taught at NAIT and a pile of other engine courses I have taken over the years. The biggest cause of contamination is from the guys working on it, not through other means like intake etc. Any time a valve cover is off, filter changes etc.

Exactly.

Follow the guide in the manual or the DIC for when it tells you to do it and you can't go wrong.

medler · Oct 30, 2017

Well maybe we should all buy gay fag electric cars lol

medler · Oct 30, 2017

Gong for a service this Saturday still love the truck tho

Toro · Nov 12, 2017

medler said:
Thanks guys. I'm picky with my stuff but don't wanna over due it. Guess I will rely on the computer. It gets serviced at GM in Stettler to[/QUOTE

All my trucks every 100 hours oil and filter, 500 hours on fuel filters on the Cats and Detroit, I let the dealer change the fuel filters on the Nissan. (17000 hours on my oldest truck, never touched the engine other than valve set)
yeah maybe excessive but oil changes are cheap

neilsleder · Nov 13, 2017

Toro said:
medler said:

Thanks guys. I'm picky with my stuff but don't wanna over due it. Guess I will rely on the computer. It gets serviced at GM in Stettler to[/QUOTE

All my trucks every 100 hours oil and filter, 500 hours on fuel filters on the Cats and Detroit, I let the dealer change the fuel filters on the Nissan. (17000 hours on my oldest truck, never touched the engine other than valve set)
yeah maybe excessive but oil changes are cheap

Click to expand...

Cheaper and easier to put in then engines.

davelaw1982 · Dec 5, 2017

the_real_wild1 said:
It is, or at least was, one of the biggest things they taught at NAIT and a pile of other engine courses I have taken over the years. The biggest cause of contamination is from the guys working on it, not through other means like intake etc. Any time a valve cover is off, filter changes etc.

your right on the contamination part, also is the additives in the oil can keep an engine too clean. It sounds stupid, but is true. that doesn't mean that you run it way over either.

I do oil at 10-12K on my '13 dodge diesel, and both fuel filters every second oil change. I fill up 95% of the time from my tank at the farm, and it gets fuel treatment/additive to the bulk tank when it is filled up. water/micron filter on the discharge of the pump from the tank. 100K on the truck, 70K of that on farm fuel, no issues so far.

Cdnfireman · Dec 5, 2017

davelaw1982 said:
your right on the contamination part, also is the additives in the oil can keep an engine too clean. It sounds stupid, but is true. that doesn't mean that you run it way over either.

I do oil at 10-12K on my '13 dodge diesel, and both fuel filters every second oil change. I fill up 95% of the time from my tank at the farm, and it gets fuel treatment/additive to the bulk tank when it is filled up. water/micron filter on the discharge of the pump from the tank. 100K on the truck, 70K of that on farm fuel, no issues so far.

Please explain how oil can keep an engine “too clean”.

LBZ · Dec 10, 2017

I don't know about it keeping it too clean, but as I've stated before and in other threads, over changing oil is also not good for the engine as per some of the reasons given below from another article I read.

Why is it harmful to change the oil too frequently?

In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.

Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.

That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.

The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.

The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”

A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.

Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.

Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil.

Cdnfireman · Dec 11, 2017

LBZ said:
I don't know about it keeping it too clean, but as I've stated before and in other threads, over changing oil is also not good for the engine as per some of the reasons given below from another article I read.

Why is it harmful to change the oil too frequently?

In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.

Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.

That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.

The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.

The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”

A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.

Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.

Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil.

Thanks for the information. The points made are I’m sure true,but I’m curious how much of these volatile constituents are contained in the typical 12 litre oil change? And would they not boil off in the first few hours of operation?
Its probaby fair to say that most of a litre of oil is oil, with a small percentage being additives, with a portion of those additives being the volatile ones.
I can see your point if someone were to change oil repeatedly over a short period of time. I just don’t see it with a service schedule that sees oil changes every 5 to 8 thousand kilometres. I would think that these volatile constituents would be long boiled off by 5000km, unless all that driving is done where the engine never gets to operating temperature for any length of time. If that’s the case then sludging would be the concern.
Also, as stated in the first few sentences of your information, the oil is most volatile in the first 3000 km. This should be so regardless of how long your change interval is.
Based on the quotes about the noack testing, the concern is possible contamination of emissions equipment, not the “ filling of the engine with gunk”. Where is this “gunk” coming from? If your engine somehow is producing “gunk” it can only come from two sources. Unburned fuel or condensation from the atmosphere. Both of which would be coming from an engine not up to operating temperature, not from excessive oil changes.

catalac · Dec 11, 2017

I tend to just follow the owners manual, only truck I've disagreed with manual on was last Cummins, fuel filter,was supposed to be every 24,000km (I think) I doubled that basis reading on the Cummings forum using pump fuel and doing very little towing.

Caper11 · Dec 16, 2017

the_real_wild1 said:
It is, or at least was, one of the biggest things they taught at NAIT and a pile of other engine courses I have taken over the years. The biggest cause of contamination is from the guys working on it, not through other means like intake etc. Any time a valve cover is off, filter changes etc.

That part makes sense, if a car and truck is mainly used on the highway and it gets the oil up to temp than I see no need to deviate from the required km oil change, unless a oil sample program is inplace.
In town use is another story and commercial use, those engines should be hour based oil changes. The oil temp does not reach its operating temp due to excessive idling and such.

Im not a fan of these oil and filter oil change monitors that come on these vehicles.

Question is which is the more desirable operating conditions. 10000km oil change on highway or 10000k in town?
So if a person decided to change the oil on a strictly intown use car at say 3-5000km would some consider that as over maintenance or preventive maintenance?

Oil and fuel filter life

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