Looking for a couple of Explanations....

[Iron Horse Racing]

Went shopping for a used boat, mostly to use for a runabout, but the kids all ski and snowboard so they will try wake boarding and have talked about wake surfing....

Found a 20' Monterey Bow Rider I/O with a factory tower, large swim platform and only 20 hours on the fuel inj 5L.

So the 29 cent question as we looked around we considered and inboard or V-drive ....

What makes them worth double the cost of an I/O ???

One can see the obvious differences between these and a I/O.

Hull design ( Deep V's handle rough water better ) ( wake board boats make better wakes)
Ballast systems ( built in ballast tanks on wake board boats )
Top speed ( Deep V's with I/O usually higher top end speed.)( wake board boats use even bigger motors with lots of low end power)
Seating (wife didn't like the reverse seating of the co-pilots seat....)( wake boats seat more )
Reverse steering ( N/A on inboards and V- drives)

The dealer indicated they wake surf behind I/O that have the large swim platforms by just weighting one side of the boat.
So I e-mailed the manufacture, Boat smart and searched a bunch of boat specific chat forms...

Manufacture answer was non com-ital, politically correct answer.... wasn't tested for that so we cant comment.
Boats Smart answer with contact the manufacture....
And the forms were filled with militant answers form both sides of the augment....

If we decide that wake surfing is what we want to do a high percent of the time, I could see wanting a wake that is easier to build and maintain, but for the odd crack at it....

The rider would be off to the side and back from the boat, so to reach the prop you would have to fall forward and to the side 6' to 10' and down at least 4' to 5'.
Boat and rider travelling at 15 MPH rider falls forward hits the water that's travelling zero MPH. The risk of hitting the boat behind either boat is there but hitting the prop???

That's question two, your thoughts of wake surfing behind a I/O.



PS we have been tubing, skiing and wake boarding behind it already and like the power, handling and ride .....

 

[Showtime]

I would never ever think about surfin behind an I/O, thats just looking for a fatality. I/O may throw an okay wakeboard wake but highly doubt you'd get a wake to surf ropeless.

 

[Showtime]

Here's a link.......click on the skull & Cross bones

http://www.howtowakesurf.com/

 

[Carrots]

Yeah never surf behind a I/o. We got a v drive and thought we would mainly use it just for wakeboarding but once we tried surfing we almost never go wakeboarding. And it's not that hard to come close to the back of the boat when surfin, a couple of times I almost piled into the back of our boat from boosting down the wake too fast lol all it takes is to just fall the wrong way and you'll get a face full of propeller

 

[mawson21]

It's hard to justify spending double the amount of money for a V-Drive over an I/O inorder to surf safely without the risk of falling into the prop. For myself it was a no brainer and don't have to fret the fact with my direct drive. Best of luck with the boat purchase.

 

[Iron Horse Racing]

Thanks for sharing your opinions and I have no plans of attempting something that would be that unsafe....



Showtime....I had seen that web site and researched that indecent, it happened behind an outboard...so it really isn't the same...



Why would a dealer stick their neck out and tell me it's okay, sell us the stuff to do it, if it was that unsafe.....

???? wouldn't the prop be far enough below and under the swim platform, and isn't the surfer outside the width of the boat???

When we loaded up the weight bags to see what the wake looked like, it appeared to produce a wake that was almost 2' in height and the highest part of the wave appeared to be about two to three feet outside the width of the boat and three to four back....


This is what it looks like with the leg in the up-right position....

Next time we go out, I'll take some pictures of the wake....

 

[barefooter]

Iron Horse:

Right now I am finding that given the water conditions (boats, people, etc) that the kids will surf before they do anything else. I have been behind almost every kind of boat, and I could not imagine surfing behind a I/O. Safety aside, those things are meant to plane. A v Drive at surfing speeds will push a lot more water and will not try to hunt" the plane all the time. You can play with the trim, etc but to surf - too me it is going to be a lot of grief. An I/O is going to be a deeper V hull design. That and the chines are meant to push it on to plane so that it is efficient through the water. A wakeboard boat is not designed to do that until it reaches 26 - 28mph. And is relatively inefficient when it gets there.

An I/O can make a perfectly respectable wakeboard boat - but even at those speeds you are going to be in a boat that is trying to plane all the time. But at wakeboard speeds you can play with the trim to make it work. An inboard or v drive is designed at those speeds to be "pushing" water to create the wake. Now - if I wanted to cruise the lake all day - I/O hands down. Better ride and fuel economy.

 

[08154XP]

Agree with the rest of the guys on here that to surf behind an I/O would never happen with me or my family. Yes the chances of something happening are slim but slim is still too high for me. Surfing is a blast and very easy on the body. Not sure what price range you are looking for but you can find a nice v drive preowned boat for mid 30's to 40's and maybe even less than that. I personally have a v-drive boat and love it.

 

[Iron Horse Racing]

Thanks this is the information I have been looking for....

Iron Horse:

Right now I am finding that given the water conditions (boats, people, etc) that the kids will surf before they do anything else. I have been behind almost every kind of boat, and I could not imagine surfing behind a I/O. Safety aside, those things are meant to plane. A v Drive at surfing speeds will push a lot more water and will not try to hunt" the plane all the time. You can play with the trim, etc but to surf - too me it is going to be a lot of grief. An I/O is going to be a deeper V hull design. That and the chines are meant to push it on to plane so that it is efficient through the water. A wakeboard boat is not designed to do that until it reaches 26 - 28mph. An is relatively inefficient when it gets there.

An I/O can make a perfectly respectable wakeboard boat - but even at those speeds you are going to be in a boat that is trying to plane all the time. But at wakeboard speeds you can play with the trim to make it work. An inboard or v drive is designed at those speeds to be "pushing" water to create the wake. Now - if I wanted to cruise the lake all day - I/O hands down. Better ride and fuel economy.

 

[barefooter]

Iron Horse:

That swim platform is about a foot higher than on a VDrive or inboard. It is high on the freeboard and not near as close to the bottom of the hull as a vdrive. When you are actually in the curl surfing - it will push you towards the boat - especially when you are learning and can't control your position. I would be worried about getting the board in between the platform and the I/0 leg. On a Vdrive all of your running gear is underwater. In an I/O - the top of the leg is out of the water and the volumetric displacement of the leg means although the prop is underwater - the water around it is "soft". It is full of air and easy to penetrate with an arm, leg, etc.

I am amazed on how many times I have been fooling around surfing and fallen towards (or into) the boat. Although the boat is moving away from the surfer, the force of the curl is pushing the surfer forward. It is not like skiing or wakeboarding where your forward momentum is generated from the boat (towrope) itself. With surfing the curl of the wake is also pushing the rider forward. You will not fall away and to the side

 

[barefooter]

For a great all around vdrive boat - look for a Sanger V210 or V215. They have a deeper V than any other vdrive boat, which means more efficient cruising and better rough water ride. Not a bad ski wake and with a plate - you can set a pretty good surf wake as well. And they have a lot of room in them. There are well built. I have been skiing them since the late 90's. They do not have the same name cachet as a malibu or mastercraft and are not as fancy - but they are a good durable boat.

Downside - no Edmonton dealer. There are some used ones that come up on Kijiji from time to time. There is a Dealer (ALberta Marine ) in Claresholm. Good thing is that the engines are Mercruiser so there are a 100 places to get them serviced.

If you want to look at mine - I am in the Park as well. I always love talking boats

Cheers, good luck on your search

 

[JoHNI_T]

both are fun boats, but one thing for sure you wont be dissapointed with a wake boat they are great......

moomba's are awesome boats for the money they perform like most $70K and up boats just not so shiny so to speak.....

 

[Iron Horse Racing]

Okay ....getting some great response's re the wake surffing question.....

Some good suggestions on brand's am planning on visiting with barefooter next week to chat and view his boat....


But what in the design makes them worth so much more than an I\O...

Is it simply supply and demand ?

The motors are the same available although less people opt for the 300 plus hp in an I/O
The gear box in an V-drive should be less money than the leg in an I/O
Hull design, R & D, material costs the average tournament boats are longer than the average I\O

I guess I keep hoping that I'm missing something and it's not just another because they can answer....

 

[Showtime]

I.H.R......if your looking for variety and first hand experiences your more than welcome to view and come for a ride in my Malibu VLX to get another idea. As far as cost it accumulates in so many different areas for example even among the top boat builders each will use a different thickness of hull fibreglass and infuse them in a different process, we looked at a Centurion but just one touch of the material on the seats just felt way cheaper, billet aluminum dash/ cup holders vs plastic trim, LED lighting, digital display, fully automated ballast/ wedge/ wake plates, powder coated towers, full stereo systems.etc The point is that they difinately cost more. I'm not to familuar with the I/O but if you buy brand new in a wake boat you also get the option of customizing to your liking with colors and options. I love my Bu but there are other tow boat manufactures that do they same thing with a cost savings. We're gonna be in Bonneyville for a week so if your interested in going for a wakeskate, surf, wakeboard or even a tub ride let me know more than happy to help someone else spend some money.

 

[JoHNI_T]

you get what you pay for,, maybe there is a small premium but go drive the 2 and you will see, 10 peeps dont fit comfortably in most run abouts, as well a runabout will be hard to get on plane loaded up but with a wake boat you can run 10 passengers and 2500lbs ballast and it almost handles the same,

heres the extra's ya get just to list a few, maybe run a bouts have some of this stuff these day Im not sure?

ballast value $2000ish but priceless fun
cruise value $1500 but any idiot take ya for a dream pull
adjustable wake plate's $2000 trim it perfect ski/surf/wake/ beginer or pros
heater value $1500 but in alberta its key
killer audio everywhere $4000,
removeable swim platform at water height $1000,, runabvout is a foot in the air lol
tower with light $2500
tower racks $500
the best seat cushions and material $2500
plush carpet
great lighting
seats 10-16 people !!!
I love wake boats

thats almost $10K right there you can buy a new moomba V drive for $45K out the door thats good

heres the best option

NO ONE CAN MAKE EXCUSES ohh the wake is too small, or its the boat because ya have the best its all rider NOW

come by for rip on ours any day