Good read for green energy proponents

[ABMax24]

so this adds up to almost 2800 mw of new power output if my math is correct. a former colleague of mine is a plant manager at 16mw biofuel power plant and says there is over 2000 mw of power available right now that we don't use. even if things pick up we probably wont ever need that available power so if all these projects get built who will use it? we don't have the power lines to export it as BC and Saskatchewan already have excess and want to sell it to Alberta. there is some export to the states but they don't need 2800 mw more. what scares me is if the government agrees to pay way more for this new power, how is this better? I worked for Enbridge gas distribution a few years ago. they were building wind farms in Ontario as fast as they could because the liberal government at the time was signing contracts for 25-30cents per kwh when the pool or average price was 6 or 7. as soon as they stopped, they haven't built anything since because without being massively subsidized they would never break even let alone make money. I don't know about anyone else but I am sick and tired of being told I have to pay more for everything in the name of climate change.

While that is all true, on the coldest days of winter and the hottest days of summer it is common for every available powerplant in the province to be operating at capacity, during these time power prices spike and there is a risk the province may run out of electricity, often at these times large industrial users are asked to curtail demand to ensure grid stability. The other thing to remember is all coal power will be shut down in the province by 2030, a decision made by Harpers government in 2012, some of these plants will be switched to natural gas, but there will be room for more supply.

Energy prices are going to go up across Canada in the coming years due to the federal carbon tax, Alberta's electricity prices will be hit especially hard due to the heavy reliance on coal and natural gas to generate that electricity. My hope is that the projects listed above can actually help bring these costs down, because if renewable electricity is cost competitive at the current $40/tonne, it should be significantly cheaper at the $170/tonne we will see in 2030.

Also for those interested this website shows all powerplants in the province over 5MW, and shows the current usage, vs available capacity.
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

 

[Cdnfireman]

I have read the article, and dozens more. Look at the first chart in that article, comparing tons of materials to twh of electricity generated. Seems pretty disingenuous to compare solar, wind and hydro (all of which generate electricity solely on their own, capturing, harnessing, and converting that energy to electricity) to a natural gas power plant. Which is solely an energy conversion device converting natural gas to electricity. To have a fair comparison it should also include the pipelines, gas plants, gas gathering systems, field compressors and gas wells to represent a true energy system. This and other areas are how I know this article is deliberately written to have a slant against renewable energy, and as you say look at the author, he clearly wouldn't make such a foolish mistake, unless it was intentional and the outcome was determined before all the facts for the article were found.

As usual you are trying to put claim I've said something I haven't, I have never once said there are no environmental or financial costs associated with renewable energy, but only a fool would believe these issues don't already exist with traditional energy systems as well. I've also at one point pointed these out to you as well, including the "toxic wastes" (your catch phrase) that are created by existing industries like oil and gas. Human existence on this planet creates disturbance to the natural environment, it's just a matter of what's worse. I'm not convinced blasting apart foothills and mountains to mine a 50ft seam of coal makes any sense.

I have zero issues with having a logical conversation with anyone on renewable energy, or any energy source for that matter, but I'm not going to argue the same points time and time again.

All systems that provide mankind with energy have a negative effect on the environment. And to a certain degree I give credit to people who are trying different things to produce the energy with less costs to the environment. But I expect them to be honest about what negative effects their systems have. The greenies tout renewables as the answer but conveniently ignore the production costs both financially and environmentally and pretend that the environmental clock should start from the instant the system goes live and not before. That’s disingenuous as hell. They criticize the oil and gas industry for its historical long term effects and its negative effects environmentally but refuse to critically look at their systems the same way.
And the coal they’re proposing to mine in the foothills is metallurgical coal, used for making steel, not for power generation, very similar to the stuff mined in southeastern BC. Not that it matters because I agree that there’s no need to rip open the foothills to access it. There’s enough coal Being produced for that in BC. We don’t need to be in that game in Alberta.

 

[ABMax24]

All systems that provide mankind with energy have a negative effect on the environment. And to a certain degree I give credit to people who are trying different things to produce the energy with less costs to the environment. But I expect them to be honest about what negative effects their systems have. The greenies tout renewables as the answer but conveniently ignore the production costs both financially and environmentally and pretend that the environmental clock should start from the instant the system goes live and not before. That’s disingenuous as hell. They criticize the oil and gas industry for its historical long term effects and its negative effects environmentally but refuse to critically look at their systems the same way.
And the coal they’re proposing to mine in the foothills is metallurgical coal, used for making steel, not for power generation, very similar to the stuff mined in southeastern BC. Not that it matters because I agree that there’s no need to rip open the foothills to access it. There’s enough coal Being produced for that in BC. We don’t need to be in that game in Alberta.

I think a lot of these issues move well beyond that of energy and into the current societal issues at hand. Every issue seems to be extremely polarizing, and few seem to see there are shades of grey in between. As far as I'm concerned the Green Party is an example of this, they have managed to cobble together enough extremists and enough funding to run in politics with policies so ridiculous it's laughable. The Liberal "Carbon Tax" takes a similar line, which is a wealth re-distribution tax labelled as good for the environment, and their supporters bought it up. A tax that does nothing to reduce carbon emissions, until it gets high enough that no-one can afford to purchase any carbon based fuel, although it will make alternatives more cost effective in comparison. And then there are the Federal Conservatives which have voted down a resolution to recognize climate change, while intending to come up with national carbon reduction strategies, if they believe carbon emissions aren't an issue then why limit them?

As we all know there are are often 2 sides to every story, and the truth lies somewhere in between. Greenpeace, tides, the narwhal, Suzuki etc are all driven by extremist motives and cherry pick information to suit their needs, but oil companies and even the Alberta Gov't have a vested interest in the continuation of oil and gas exploration, and their words also need to be taken with some degree of skepticism.

 

[jhurkot]

While that is all true, on the coldest days of winter and the hottest days of summer it is common for every available powerplant in the province to be operating at capacity, during these time power prices spike and there is a risk the province may run out of electricity, often at these times large industrial users are asked to curtail demand to ensure grid stability. The other thing to remember is all coal power will be shut down in the province by 2030, a decision made by Harpers government in 2012, some of these plants will be switched to natural gas, but there will be room for more supply.

Energy prices are going to go up across Canada in the coming years due to the federal carbon tax, Alberta's electricity prices will be hit especially hard due to the heavy reliance on coal and natural gas to generate that electricity. My hope is that the projects listed above can actually help bring these costs down, because if renewable electricity is cost competitive at the current $40/tonne, it should be significantly cheaper at the $170/tonne we will see in 2030.

Also for those interested this website shows all powerplants in the province over 5MW, and shows the current usage, vs available capacity.
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

Try using this site...

https://www.dispatcho.app/assets

Type solar, wind, biomass, gas, etc in the search bar. Shows energy output over time in graph form.

 

[LennyR]

Seemingly conflicting

 

[ABMax24]

Seemingly conflicting

The irony of that whole project is the startup he is funding wants to dump calcium carbonate dust into the atmosphere using weather balloons to restrict a small percentage of the light entering earth. Before the heavy reduction of sulfur in fuels, the sulfur compounds produced from fuel combustion would travel up into the atmosphere and block a small amount of sunlight, creating the same effect.

The 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo proved this theory, it ejected large amounts of SO2 into the atmosphere and blocked about 10% of the sunlight from reaching the surface, which dropped average global surface temperatures about 0.4 degrees C.

But yeah, solar power would suffer from such a scheme, as would farmers from reduced crop yields, and foresters from longer re-harvest intervals.

 

[LennyR]

Was walking thru a pretty cool archaeological dig the other day , saw this and thought they must have been burning a lot of coal or wood or diesel to so drastically change the climate in that century !!