Motorcycle,ATV, & 4x4 Trails (Civil Rant)

mudboy · Feb 21, 2008

The post should of goen a little like this.
"Hey guys I just want to share a little information with you. I am a dirt bike rider and have been for X amount of years. Over the past few years the group I ride with including myself have expirenced a loss of our trail system do to the ATV's travelling down them. These trails are dedicated for 2 wheel motor powered vehicles only as stated on the map for the area. The trails are also marked with signs that show a guy on a motorbike. These signs do not mean all motorized vehicles. Your cooperation and assistance in helping out and getting the word out would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

This might have helped a little better then attacking all the users of an area. Maybe people just need to be a little more educated

Murminator · Feb 21, 2008

I see everyones side you all have good points but lets talk civilized no attacks or bashing so lets keep it clean or it will be locked

Shibby! · Feb 21, 2008

mudboy said:
The post should of goen a little like this.
"Hey guys I just want to share a little information with you. I am a dirt bike rider and have been for X amount of years. Over the past few years the group I ride with including myself have expirenced a loss of our trail system do to the ATV's travelling down them. These trails are dedicated for 2 wheel motor powered vehicles only as stated on the map for the area. The trails are also marked with signs that show a guy on a motorbike. These signs do not mean all motorized vehicles. Your cooperation and assistance in helping out and getting the word out would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

This might have helped a little better then attacking all the users of an area. Maybe people just need to be a little more educated

Sure, being civil to that degree sometimes works, but to a lot of the users who have seen these responses for years haven't got the point yet. I'm fairly educated about the situation and I am thoroughly schooled.

Putting this rant in with another nail in the coffin may be the case, but have you looked at the forum lately? Look down a few posts. "Best Stuck Pictures".

Nothing against Ron. I think I met him a few weeks back with no problems what so ever, but the first picture.... hum...

2nd picture. Oh yea, Lake Kookanusa. American and south B.C Water suply. 3rd picture. Mclean. Elbow River, Calgary and area water supply.

If you think my post is a nail in the coffin, "your" pictures and actions are putting you 6 feet under.

All I'm saying is respect our trails, respect other recreational users, and respect the land. If we all did this, everybody would be in a better position then what we are right now.

mudboy · Feb 21, 2008

Is the rm 250 not a 2 stroke motor bike. ?? I thought I remember hearing something about how 2 strokes were bad for the environment ???

Shibby! · Feb 21, 2008

mudboy said:
Is the rm 250 not a 2 stroke motor bike. ?? I thought I remeber hearing something about how 2 strokes were bad for the enviroment ???

Much like your two stroke sleds, or the millions of vehicles with one people in them, or the industry pumping tonnes of overheated water into rivers or untreated water into the ocean.

Quite being a smart ass.

vkropodra · Feb 21, 2008

Shibby! said:
Sure, being civil to that degree sometimes works, but to a lot of the users who have seen these responses for years haven't got the point yet. I'm fairly educated about the situation and I am thoroughly schooled.

Putting this rant in with another nail in the coffin may be the case, but have you looked at the forum lately? Look down a few posts. "Best Stuck Pictures".

Nothing against Ron. I think I met him a few weeks back with no problems what so ever, but the first picture.... hum...

2nd picture. Oh yea, Lake Kookanusa. American and south B.C Water suply. 3rd picture. Mclean. Elbow River, Calgary and area water supply.

If you think my post is a nail in the coffin, "your" pictures and actions are putting you 6 feet under.

All I'm saying is respect our trails, respect other recreational users, and respect the land. If we all did this, everybody would be in a better position then what we are right now.

I must admit that the pics at Koocanoosa were of me and my riding buddies. These are taken when the area is still snow covered and we are riding in run off areas where the lake floods later in the spring so as to minimize damage. That said I can honestly say I have never had a problem with bikes riding on atv trails and vice versa. Majority of riding we do is in the mountains on old to very old logging roads and we ensure that all bikers leave as little of a ftprnt as possible.

It sure would be nice to please everyone but that is NOT going to happen so we/me/you should give it up and realize we have to share the trails or lose them! Just my 2 cents

Shibby! · Feb 21, 2008

vkropodra said:
I must admit that the pics at Koocanoosa were of me and my riding buddies. These are taken when the area is still snow covered and we are riding in run off areas where the lake floods later in the spring so as to minimize damage. That said I can honestly say I have never had a problem with bikes riding on atv trails and vice versa. Majority of riding we do is in the mountains on old to very old logging roads and we ensure that all bikers leave as little of a ftprnt as possible.

It sure would be nice to please everyone but that is NOT going to happen so we/me/you should give it up and realize we have to share the trails or lose them! Just my 2 cents

I understand there are certain situations where you have to cross areas that may be sensitive. Like you said, minimize your footprint should be the main concern. River crossings are impossible not to go through, but there is one thing of going through them once, or going up and down them and back and forth. This "washing of your ride" is putting chemicals, and biological matter in water stream which shouldn't be there. This is a general statement regarding water crossings.

I understand we also have to treat eachother with respect, but this is where I would like ATV's to respect motorcycle trails. You don't see very often when bikes ruin a ATV trail, but we see it on a daily basis. Bikes don't carry chainsaws to widen trails for them to fit, nor do they usaully leave deep ruts or deepen water crossings. We see our single track rutted up, our water crossings turn in to lakes, and our trails widened to the point of allowing 4x4's through.

Just a simple request I'm trying to make here. Our areas around Calgary are getting way over populated making this errosion increase at an alarming rate. There are simple ways of slowing this down, and most of it has to do with respect as I stated on previous posts.

When I see people stop wearing rain gear and people doing donuts in muskeq I'll be a lot happier.

PS: Another good tactic to building or maintaining enviro friendly trails is to not avoid hard obsticles. If the trail is difficult to get down, don't go making 6 other options to getting around the difficult area. Repair the area so it's possible to pass. Another thing we should take from the mountain bike community.

steveo · Feb 21, 2008

Hey shibby
Are you with greenpeace?????????????What next... are the quads the only thing causing global warming!!

Shibby! · Feb 21, 2008

steveo said:
Hey shibby
Are you with greenpeace?????????????What next... are the quads the only thing causing global warming!!

Quote:

"stupidity is not a crime........... your free to go"

Motorman26 · Feb 21, 2008

Quads vs. Bikes is not a good idea. I'd like to see everyone get along. I do both but prefer the bike. To add to the enviromental issues discussed, I thought I'd share my opinion on this. If you have ever been in the back country than you have probably shared this same thought. You are cruising along (being careful not to spin your tire) and come across numerous clearings where either a oil, gas, or logging company has come in and totally raped the land. I always stop and think how much harm is my bike really doing. My dirtbike tire is about 4 inches wide, but this clear-cut is a mile wide, my bike burns around 8 liters of gas in a day, but the dozer over there burns 800. I often stop and wonder, maybe these guys have something to do with the big push to close our trails. If we cant ride back here than we won't see what they are doing. Don't get me wrong I'm not going against industry, I realize that we greatly rely on it. (especially to fuel our sport) I just don't see how the tires on our machines are doing any legitement damage. (In comparison) So before we start beating each other up, maybe we should take a step back and take a look at the big picture.

Summiteer · Feb 21, 2008

Motorman26 said:
Quads vs. Bikes is not a good idea. I'd like to see everyone get along. I do both but prefer the bike. To add to the enviromental issues discussed, I thought I'd share my opinion on this. If you have ever been in the back country than you have probably shared this same thought. You are cruising along (being careful not to spin your tire) and come across numerous clearings where either a oil, gas, or logging company has come in and totally raped the land. I always stop and think how much harm is my bike really doing. My dirtbike tire is about 4 inches wide, but this clear-cut is a mile wide, my bike burns around 8 liters of gas in a day, but the dozer over there burns 800. I often stop and wonder, maybe these guys have something to do with the big push to close our trails. If we cant ride back here than we won't see what they are doing. Don't get me wrong I'm not going against industry, I realize that we greatly rely on it. (especially to fuel our sport) I just don't see how the tires on our machines are doing any legitement damage. (In comparison) So before we start beating each other up, maybe we should take a step back and take a look at the big picture.

I guess the problem lies in the fact that 90% of the population wouldn't care if another quad never turned a tire, but they/we would ALL get pretty cold if oil and gas stopped coming out of the ground or trees stopped getting cut down. all we can do is minimize our individual impact, pack out what you pack in and respect existing laws because if they change, chances are it won't be for the better for us.

gusto · Feb 21, 2008

I am living in B.C. so I'm not familiar with Alta trails . On one point I agree with you Shibby ,and that is a some people who ride atv,s will rip up any mud holes they see. It is not rite in my opinion but we also know peeps that do the same on bikes. Most trails that I know of here, unless otherwise stated are for recreational use IE. sleds atvs and bikes . It is like seeing a cross country ski.er using groomed sled trails but they should not complain about sledders , its just not rite. Us motorized sport riders should be able to share the trails with respect to each other in an organized fashion, otherwise this is fuel for fodder with our adversaries . You really want to talk about environmental damage look at clear cutting log blocks . I believe it happens in Alta and B.C. Lets work together out there for our children who want to ride in there time....

My

Gusto

Garryese · Feb 21, 2008

Shibby! said:
Yes it is. It's an offroad recreational area. I have lights, both front and rear, quiet spark arrestor, and plate, insurance, and registration.

I also feel a lot of trails could lessen the impact on the environment if they were properly made. Refering back to the mountain bike community, there are books, and guidelines to follow to help make trails to lessen the impact. Such things as staying away from water sensitive areas, drainage valleys, etc. If these were followed the trails would stay dry and lesson the damage, as well as vehicles would stay away from water sensitive areas.

With lights front and rear, plate, insurance and registration a RM falls within the same rules/definitions as ATVs.

Joe Wernex has wrote a book on building trails for motorbikes. He later expanded the book to include ATV trails(second edition). While the book is not cited as the standards that must be meet in designing trails, it is by far the most used reference out there. Google his name to get an idea of the crediblity of this text. The book can be downloaded here.

If anyone needs an outline for a Trail Management Plan, please feel free to email me and I will get you a copy of our plan for the Southesk Trail: It addresses all the issues.

mudboy · Feb 21, 2008

ever see the damage 200 head of cows do in a grazing lease?? lot worse then any Atv / bike will ever do but we all eat beef (well most of us)

Shibby! · Feb 22, 2008

Thing is complaining about cattle and logging is trying to put your reason for eniro wear 'Ok' because it's less then other types of environmental damage.

Big thing is they are an industry. We are for recreational use. They are likely fighting their battle with enviro erosion, fertilizers, chemicals, and gas emmisions, but we have to fight ours. Blaming logging about enviro damage is going to get us nowhere, although I do agree, even looking at south Mclean, the place is a mess.

plumbum · Feb 22, 2008

this is going off topic. still lotso complaining but what are you going to do to help. complain on a message board or get involved. like i said before get into contact with one of your local groups and make a difference, not just noise.

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SNOWHAWK · Feb 24, 2008

Well i got bikes and quads... and honestly who cares what you ride...

The reason i am posting this...
In devon alberta, the govement has build a sort of river park under the famous devon bridge. they decided to make this popular area a no mx/atv zone...
So they put a gard rail around the area, but it just so happins one of the gard rails is at the bottom of a realy steep hill. i knew about it but my buddy almost offed himself yesterday... think its time to sue the bastards?

sumx54 · Feb 25, 2008

popcorn please!!!!

Motorcycle,ATV, & 4x4 Trails (Civil Rant)

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