Back Country User Fee

So after listening to the last 2 days worth of the Ryan Jespersen show on 630 CHED, from the conversation on February 1 with Mr Radke, to the discussion on Feb 2 with the ex Manager of Banff National Park. I'm very surprised the amount of SUPPORT that ATV users are throwing out there to Mr Radke's idea of a user fee.

So First of all, I've attached Mr Radke's letter to the Government here for us all to read.

Secondly, please respond to this poll. Who would be in favor of paying a "Back Country Access Fee" if it was properly managed and was used for building and maintaining sustainable trails, and other infrastructure to keep our beloved sport going for years to come? If so, what do you feel is a "fair" charge for this "back country access fee"????

I don't think $100 is out of line, but I'm not sure I agree with only 50% of it going into trail development and maintenance.

It's nice to see him supporting the community in the way he sees fit, but I certainly don't agree with everything he says. ...I'm definitely not fond of his over exaggerated opinion of the trail conditions, the impact to other multi-use users, or his stance on OHV use West of the forestry trunk road.

whoDEANie said:

I don't think $100 is out of line, but I'm not sure I agree with only 50% of it going into trail development and maintenance.

It's nice to see him supporting the community in the way he sees fit, but I certainly don't agree with everything he says. ...I'm definitely not fond of his over exaggerated opinion of the trail conditions, the impact to other multi-use users, or his stance on OHV use West of the forestry trunk road.

Click to expand...

I agree, however he does have some good points. Not sure if you've been listening to the show or podcasts (The Ryan Jespersen Show | 630 CHED - Edmonton Breaking News, Traffic, Weather and Sports Radio Station) but there's been some great discussion around it. I look forward to following the story on CHED and to see what more comes of it (if any) as well as discussion here on the forum about it.

$100 a year for camping/ATV in the back country I think is affordable. I pay $80 a year for Snowmobile Trail Pass (per machine) and the last 2 years haven't really been able to use my snowmobile on the trails. Same idea is it not?

Should the fees only affect motorized traffic or all users? Perhaps there should be fees based on damage potential?

4 wheelers, jeeps, quads, etc. pay a larger fee based on the damage they can do vs a horse or a hiker paying minimal fees....????

I have discussed this for a few years now, coud this fee be added to our registration? We all need registration and insurance to ride i the back country. The groups I ride with have all been stopped and checked and in compliance with the laws.
But, Would this be just another Government cash grab or would this fee be divided up between maintainance of our back country and personal controling or enforcing rules?

I think I pay enough taxes and fees as it is, no thanks to another. Why not use the OHV registration monies and some of the gasoline
tax?


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I would have no problem paying $100 for a yearly pass, but I'd like to see a family pass for $250, for up to say a family of 4 or 5. Keep it affordable for everyone.
There should also be a cost for equine users, back country users etc. The trails they use exclusively for themselves cost money to maintain as well.
Also, a percentage should be set aside for enforcement. Let's face it, it's the 5% of users that tear everything up, and leave garbage everywhere that make all of us look bad.

i'm all for a back county access fee as long as there is a senior discount, or wave the fee for seniors as they have already payed way to much!

The main sticking point is , the fees can NOT go into general revenue ( especially the way this gov spends ) it needs to be set aside specially for OHV use ( etc).
I also think a levy should be put on ( new at time of sale)on any new RV /bike / sled / quad / horse trailer etc that uses the backcountry ...
Say 50$ +|~
That would add up to a lot of cash ! The dealers should pay this ( they will add it onto price anyways) but that fee and a reasonable trail pass , would show our integrity & responsibility to all to see!
As well as a accountable record of economic stimulus we add to all of Alberta ( that seems to be less than appreciated !)
No pass for either , you get fined !
Just throwing out ideas ...
But if I can ride the mountains and trails & and contribute with out being constantly bashed for destroying the Rocky Mountains & pay our fair share ...
Count me in !!!


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Cdnfireman said:

I would have no problem paying $100 for a yearly pass, but I'd like to see a family pass for $250, for up to say a family of 4 or 5. Keep it affordable for everyone.
There should also be a cost for equine users, back country users etc. The trails they use exclusively for themselves cost money to maintain as well.
Also, a percentage should be set aside for enforcement. Let's face it, it's the 5% of users that tear everything up, and leave garbage everywhere that make all of us look bad.

Click to expand...

If ANY groups have 100% compliance ..
I want to shake their hands !!
There is always a small group that gives the rest a black eye ...
And this applies to hikers & huggers just as much !!!


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I voted yes to the fee and I would pay it...but...we are already paying it with our registrations every year and the gas we burn has a "highway use" component to the tax and of course we are not on the highway so I feel we are already paying plenty of "fees" when we go quading, none of which are being spent on trails.

We are already paying knothead a fee to break Alberta ... Do I like it .. No
But we will have little choice . Wether we can TRUST this gov is a scary , proposition indeed ..,
However , we are grasping at straws here .


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imdoo'n said:

i'm all for a back county access fee as long as there is a senior discount, or wave the fee for seniors as they have already payed way to much!

Click to expand...

Give it a rest ....
Everyone pays .... Period !


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I vote yes....but I would not trust anything associated with the NDPs to administer or run it.

A random camping fee...say a sticker on your RV, would keep the weekend kids parties out of the bush....been saying that for years. The funds from the fee would pay for extra cops to enforce it.

Totally agree Dave ...
It's becoming quite clear, that while there are many ,many ways to make compromises that keep all stake holders relatively satisfied ....
I would suggest a decision has been made , regardless of input or facts & balance.

This would follow the pattern that this government has not deviated from as yet .



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DaveB said:

I vote yes....but I would not trust anything associated with the NDPs to administer or run it.

A random camping fee...say a sticker on your RV, would keep the weekend kids parties out of the bush....been saying that for years. The funds from the fee would pay for extra cops to enforce it.

Click to expand...

Good idea on the sticker for random camping, similar to the one used for registration and insurance.

It would stop the weekend bush party camping or help control it. (Of all ages)

Seem's we do clean up a few camp spots each year with trash and tents left behind.

I'm a senior too but am willing to pay my share to allow my kids and grand kids to be able to quad and play in Alberta's outback as long as the moneys isn't collected or managed by the NDP government, there will be none left

As long as the money goes towards keeping back country areas open. And the price is reasonable, I have no issues paying a fee

Just too share on what registration was ment too do when promoted by the Canadian Government and Provinces in its first stages.

Registration was brought in for the legal system too be able to pin-point each unit with registration belonged too such and such a person with proof of Bill of sale.

A portion of these funds were and are too be allocated too roads and highways and administration fees too keep track of it all.

Highways, roads, bridges, ditch drainage, signs, over-passes, law enforcement, towns and cities, each $1 was broken into the peace of the pie scale.

It didn't take long till a short fall showed up in the system, so the feds added a fuel tax too the stuff used on the roads and highways,,, purple fuel was and is exempt from the road tax.

But if people using taxable orange gas in off road units, this tax applies still with no chance of receiving these funds back.

A person(s) not owning a farm or industrial business that uses it for off road purposes can purchase purple fuel,,, but folks that do not own industrial or farm are not allowed too buy off road "non taxable fuel for their off road lawn tractor, OHV, Snowmobiles,,, ect...

All fuel whether orange or purple has GST,,, companies and farmers get this back at years end,,, kinda like a revolving cash flow that is exempt all the time.

So the Feds set up a system that allocates this funds of off highway registrations, fuel and oils that are full taxable too general Government coffers that do not benefit their intended uses.

So this shows there is another short fall on the multi millions of dollars spent by the 165.000 OHV's registered in Alberta at let say $50 a pop / $8.25 million + 2 tanks of fuel per year for each and 1 motor oil change / $825.000 for the 165.000 units.

So that adds up too $10 ish million.
-15% administration fee = $1.5 million
-20% policing = $1.7 million
$3.2 mill - $10 = $6.8 million lost funds in general coffers.

This is a conservative number as most of the 165.000 thousand users burn more than 2 tanks of fuel per year. "give or take."

So with that said, if folks were too pay this extra user fee, what guarantee this X of $$$ would go towards the department of its intended use(s).

All good points as I'd be game, but would it be wize or un-wize too consider a lobby group too pressure the government too disclose where the $10 ish million "$6.8" spent per year for 2016 went, or consider a lobby and independent board of business people related too our industry too head this up as they have too disclose yearly these allocated funds.

I'd be game at paying more like Stan mentioned in the $50 range as it too is a conservative number.

I listened to both broadcasts as Stan's numbers are very close from the time he and his family added up.

OHV / UTV use for folks 65 on fixed income could be exempt as Imdoo'n mentioned. My 2 retired pals enjoy the out doors, and can only get out a few times a year due too factors that we see first hand when we walk in their shoes.

Yes and no at end as many of us would like to see how these funds and the registration funds add up together into one package.

All funds "could" be added since we're all ready paying the off highway registrations fees that should be part of this puzzle IMO only that is.

Don

Plan has just like this but more in-depth has been presented to the government before. I have posted a summary here before. Was to be a surcharge added to your registration of $50.00 on-top of registration fees. This $50 would be a designated funds set up like your tire battery tax. Money collected by government and a group selected handles the money. All in all a good deal BUT. Had a lot of questions as some non motorized groups started looking at it as a funding opportunity for their trails. Some rules were discussed and a lot of other things and it seemed to be gaining ground. Trail funding was part of the plan. Lots of other topics such as disposition of trails to give ownership to groups to protect trail from other industry users, liability ,enforcement ,education etc.
Again looking good then fight started about who was to handle the money. Who holds the money and doles it out. Trail groups one mainly would not agree. Government changed within ministries or something and our chance to get the plan in action was lost. All that work gone. Plan still around and could start again BUT would NDP want a PC plan???

All in all a good plan but we need to start getting more responsible in our actions. Stay out of water and mud and don't make any more random trails all over the place. I now without any options we are hard to change. I needs to start yesterday or 15 years ago would of been better. With no direction or assistance from the government it has come to this now. We kill our recreation always. Some agree some disagree but if we don't do something we all lose.