BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

tex78 · Oct 11, 2016

Lund said:
Well i know most of you hardly ever agree with me but i have been lobbying for this for 20years and i have been beat down on this discussion even on this forum. I believe it can work. It works in the east and has for years, it can work here with some customization to fit our province. My self and some club members years back proposed it to BCSF and no go.
Glad to hear they are looking at it atleast. IMO its about time the organization got out of the dark ages. Another POSSIBLE great step forward in the future of snowmobiling in BC. First the joining of BCSF/ABC, now this.
Somebody on here told me there is new blood at BCSF, i'm impressed and excited with the proposal and old way thinking has to go.
BTW, i don't think the proposed $200 for a season pass is adequate and if your going to make it work the pass should reflect a more real world number. Back east a season pass is closer to $400 per sled.
The more you ride the cheaper your pass will be and yes a day pass should be offered for non season holders.

Well Mike it was said about out east

Biggest difference is they are all joined and shared trails, that each club grooms and looks after there own part

Where here is 180 different

I'm for the pass province wide, but not the way they have drafted it, to take money away from bigger operating clubs ( that have big operating costs) and give it to small clubs is so totally wrong, there is other ways for bcsf to get the money for what they want to do

sent while drinking tea's

bobsledder · Oct 11, 2016

Lund said:
I just wanted to add but forgot to. Our proposal at the time was never to eliminate the already existing club member ships system. BUT it was an option for those riding multiple areas. Rider's riding the same areas would maintian their current status quo. Thus those clubs would retain their memberships. This would also keep the operation cost in check.

Anyhow its not my proposal, i'm done with that a long time ago. Hope they can work something out, this is good news imo.

That would work for those that ride multiple areas and seems fair. If it is over 200 a year to ride your home club then I suppose there are other ways to ride in

snowcannon · Oct 11, 2016

Out in Manitoba the snopass costs $150. The money made from that is devided amongst the clubs for each kilometer they groom. Based on 10 grooming runs per season (I think). If the season ends early as in early spring, the clubs get to use the rest for repairs, parts and such. Clubs with larger trail networks received a larger share. Having a snopass entitles you to ride over 12000 - 16000 kilometers of groomed trails.
Not sure if that system can be adapted to mountain riding.

tex78 · Oct 11, 2016

The way sicamous works, every 75 riders up, trail gets groomed

In the mountains is not the length of trail, it's the locations and conditions that dictate when to groom

sent while drinking tea's

rightsideup · Oct 11, 2016

The sport in BC need a voice to promote and preserve the sport. The BCSF calculates that around 15 per cent of the snowmobiles in the province hold memberships to clubs. Many of these people could be day pass users who travel to numerous areas and do not see the need to have a pass in one area. These type of riders do fund the sport and should be recognized as doing so. Some areas have no organized clubs but area's to ride in that have neither groomed trails or warm up chalets. Others simply go in the back ways to organized area's and simply do not want to pay. I have no idea how these percentages would work out between these categories. Other winter recreation sports view snowmobiles as a competition to there industry and have taken some of there revenue to fund support for industry. Our sport needs to do the same. My belief is that the BC backcountry has enough room to handle different types of sport's but it has been communicated to me second hand that other interests have been painting snowmobiling in a bad light. I was at the meeting were the BCSF presented this proposal not to vote on but to critique. Many Directors of clubs have already read the draft. About 15 clubs were represented out of 70 which is a small sample size but there was enough of a diversity of revenue streams that concerns were brought up and documented. How is the voice for the preservation and promotion of the sport to be funded is the question. If you as club members see issues on the final proposal that the BCSF comes up with and have other solutions to fund a voice to mitigate any threats to the sport I would strongly suggest you communicate them at your club meetings.

Allseasons · Oct 12, 2016

Could one of you break down the costs for an out of province guy on a yearly basis under the proposal. I'm a routine guy and have set times I go

first trip is Revie up Frisby- 4-5 days

Second Christmas in lower mainland - whistler, coq, 2 days riding.

Third trip is a base of sicamous- 4-5 days where I hit owls 2, blue 1, hunters 1 and quest if conditions good.

Golden is usually 4-5 days trips to Silent or Gorman, night in a hotel after work, get up ride the day and go home sort of day trip

At least 15 days of riding a year in bc, can't afford more than 20. And though I'll be shunned, at 40-50 for a day pass, ef it I'm out, I'll go to Montana or sell the sled
and get a smaller one to ride the ****ty conditions on the eastern slope

and another note of interest, last year of my 16 days of riding, 3 was on a nice groomed trail, the rest I beat the piss out of me and my machine.

tex78 · Oct 12, 2016

Allseasons said:
Could one of you break down the costs for an out of province guy on a yearly basis under the proposal. I'm a routine guy and have set times I go

first trip is Revie up Frisby- 4-5 days

Second Christmas in lower mainland - whistler, coq, 2 days riding.

Third trip is a base of sicamous- 4-5 days where I hit owls 2, blue 1, hunters 1 and quest if conditions good.

Golden is usually 4-5 days trips to Silent or Gorman, night in a hotel after work, get up ride the day and go home sort of day trip

At least 15 days of riding a year in bc, can't afford more than 20. And though I'll be shunned, at 40-50 for a day pass, ef it I'm out, I'll go to Montana or sell the sled
and get a smaller one to ride the ****ty conditions on the eastern slope

and another note of interest, last year of my 16 days of riding, 3 was on a nice groomed trail, the rest I beat the piss out of me and my machine.

I don't know if your pass price or membership price will go up, I would say at least what ever % bcsf wants to take ect, your passes ect will go up

What I was saying is, in a nut shell bcsf is doing a carbon tax persay

So for example, every $100 spent passes or membership, 80 % goes to the club and 20 % goes to bcsf

Now what bcsf is doing with the money is one part taking from big clubs and giving to little ones, supporting them to help keep areas open

Problem with that is the big clubs ( other than revy I'm sure) are for every 1 buck made, 99 % is spent to make that buck

Take 20 % more of the buck made and guess what happens

sent while drinking tea's

Lund · Oct 12, 2016

So i went over my cost last season for sledding in BC in trail passes and membership as i record every ride on my calendar.
This is for ONE sled only.
Hunters Range membership fee $170, 6 rides
Owls head.............................$20, 6 rides
Grey Stokes...........................$20, 3 rides
Revy....................................$20, 4 rides
Eagles..................................$20, 3 rides
Blue lake...............................$20, 2 rides
10K......................................$20, 1 ride
Ice fields...............................$20, 2 rides
Trout lake..............................$20, 1 ride

That is 23 rides with a $20 trail fee for $460 for one sled added to my Hunters primary rider fee of $170.
$630 for me to ride last season, this is not including my wifes fees. So her Hunters membership is $120, otherwise X2 for everything else.

I'm at a point that sledding is becoming too expensive and i'm not the only one that says that. Many are leaving the sport all together because of the cost or not buying into it with memberships. MAJORITY of riders i know ride multiple places. Only a few i know like Tex ride the same place.

Allseasons · Oct 12, 2016

yes and I see $20 prices, I paid $25 at a few of those places, that were ungroomed I might add

*Edit* I just looked at GSC, probably will join up once they post 2016/2017 passes

lilduke · Oct 12, 2016

Allseasons said:
Could one of you break down the costs for an out of province guy on a yearly basis under the proposal. I'm a routine guy and have set times I go

first trip is Revie up Frisby- 4-5 days

Second Christmas in lower mainland - whistler, coq, 2 days riding.

Third trip is a base of sicamous- 4-5 days where I hit owls 2, blue 1, hunters 1 and quest if conditions good.

Golden is usually 4-5 days trips to Silent or Gorman, night in a hotel after work, get up ride the day and go home sort of day trip

At least 15 days of riding a year in bc, can't afford more than 20. And though I'll be shunned, at 40-50 for a day pass, ef it I'm out, I'll go to Montana or sell the sled
and get a smaller one to ride the ****ty conditions on the eastern slope

and another note of interest, last year of my 16 days of riding, 3 was on a nice groomed trail, the rest I beat the piss out of me and my machine.

FYI There is 20+ WICKED zones around Revy that you need NO trail pass to ride. Same thing with Golden and the lower mainland.

I buy a Revy membership to support the club, but most of the time don't ride maintained trails.

Just cause you're cheap doesn't mean you have to give up sledding in Revy! Haha

Bnorth · Oct 12, 2016

Allseasons said:
yes and I see $20 prices, I paid $25 at a few of those places, that were ungroomed I might add

*Edit* I just looked at GSC, probably will join up once they post 2016/2017 passes

If you join a BCSF club the $5 from the day pass that goes to BCSF is not paid. ie. I'm an Eagle Valley member so a day in Revy costs me $20 instead of $25.

lilduke · Oct 12, 2016

Revy- trail pass was 0$ seems reasonable.....

rightsideup · Oct 12, 2016

Lund said:
So i went over my cost last season for sledding in BC in trail passes and membership as i record every ride on my calendar.
This is for ONE sled only.
Hunters Range membership fee $170, 6 rides
Owls head.............................$20, 6 rides
Grey Stokes...........................$20, 3 rides
Revy....................................$20, 4 rides
Eagles..................................$20, 3 rides
Blue lake...............................$20, 2 rides
10K......................................$20, 1 ride
Ice fields...............................$20, 2 rides
Trout lake..............................$20, 1 ride

That is 23 rides with a $20 trail fee for $460 for one sled added to my Hunters primary rider fee of $170.
$630 for me to ride last season, this is not including my wifes fees. So her Hunters membership is $120, otherwise X2 for everything else.

I'm at a point that sledding is becoming too expensive and i'm not the only one that says that. Many are leaving the sport all together because of the cost or not buying into it with memberships. MAJORITY of riders i know ride multiple places. Only a few i know like Tex ride the same place.

Just curious is this a typical year or would you ride hunters more in others to take advantage of your season pass?... and with out a doubt people from the populated areas of the Okanagan and even west of sicamous on hwy ride a variety of areas, some may not have a seasonal pass as you do.

moyiesledhead · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
So Curtis has this idea been shot down already in the past? Or can you at least tell me what is wrong with it in principle?

Why not sell BCSF memberships for x amount of dollars with in advance or right at the trail head.

And with the yearly BCSF membership it gives you the right to then purchase a day trail pass.

That way every one that is on the mountain that day is a BCSF member vs just a trail pass.

I understand that you want us to buy a year pass to a club, and within that pass is the $30 BCSF membership but the reality is that some people will not cough up cash unless it is extracted from them -- at least not all at once.

But I can tell you this, absolutely no one is gonna turn around and go home because you extorted $30 out of them for a BCSF membership before allowing them to purchase their $30 trail fee.

That would be considered "exclusive access". Not allowed by the BC government under our current management agreements.

Allseasons said:
Could one of you break down the costs for an out of province guy on a yearly basis under the proposal.

It's probably a win for you guys. Buy the $150 - $200 yearly membership and you're done. No day passes to buy any more.

moyiesledhead · Oct 12, 2016

Bnorth said:
If you join a BCSF club the $5 from the day pass that goes to BCSF is not paid. ie. I'm an Eagle Valley member so a day in Revy costs me $20 instead of $25.

In theory yes, but not all BCSF clubs have been honoring that discount. And many clubs send no part of a day pass to the BCSF in the first place.

skegpro · Oct 12, 2016

The trail pass price should be $25 -30 or whatever is required to run the trail, but you shouldn't even have the privilege to buy one if you don't have a BCSF membership.
We need to do a better job of funding our lobby group. Cause the huggers have huge dollars behind them.

skegpro · Oct 12, 2016

https://www.snowandmud.com/snowmobi...-columbia-future-sledding-help.html?highlight

Hey look we talk about this every year and nothing changes...............

rightsideup · Oct 12, 2016

Allseasons said:
Could one of you break down the costs for an out of province guy on a yearly basis under the proposal. I'm a routine guy and have set times I go

first trip is Revie up Frisby- 4-5 days

Second Christmas in lower mainland - whistler, coq, 2 days riding.

Third trip is a base of sicamous- 4-5 days where I hit owls 2, blue 1, hunters 1 and quest if conditions good.

Golden is usually 4-5 days trips to Silent or Gorman, night in a hotel after work, get up ride the day and go home sort of day trip

At least 15 days of riding a year in bc, can't afford more than 20. And though I'll be shunned, at 40-50 for a day pass, ef it I'm out, I'll go to Montana or sell the sled
and get a smaller one to ride the ****ty conditions on the eastern slope

and another note of interest, last year of my 16 days of riding, 3 was on a nice groomed trail, the rest I beat the piss out of me and my machine.

I really do not see a threat of the day passes going up drastically I believe for every out of province rider that buys a seasonal membership there are riders just like yourself that go to different areas because they like the diversity and ride about the same as you do because work and cost are issues. I not sure how other clubs manage there grooming schedule but in sicamous it is updated consistently but sled traffic a lone will not determine the condition temperature can be a challenge as well.

moyiesledhead · Oct 12, 2016

skegpro said:
The trail pass price should be $25 -30 or whatever is required to run the trail, but you shouldn't even have the privilege to buy one if you don't have a BCSF membership.
We need to do a better job of funding our lobby group. Cause the huggers have huge dollars behind them.

Exclusive access (mandatory BCSF membership) to crown land is not legal under current legislation. Well......unless you're a heli-ski operation of course. :rant:

"Whatever is required to run the trail" is another can of worms that's being opened. Under sled clubs management agreements the trail pass fees collected can only legally be spent on "trail maintenance". Many clubs have been using the money for building cabins and other expenses that fall outside that regulation. Government is taking a hard look at that now too.

skegpro · Oct 12, 2016

moyiesledhead said:
Exclusive access (mandatory BCSF membership) to crown land is not legal under current legislation. Well......unless you're a heli-ski operation of course.

"Whatever is required to run the trail" is another can of worms that's being opened. Under sled clubs management agreements the trail pass fees collected can only legally be spent on "trail maintenance". Many clubs have been using the money for building cabins and other expenses that fall outside that regulation. Government is taking a hard look at that now too.

Hmmm so say I refused to pay my trail fee.

Does the club have the jurisdiction to not allow me to use the trail up?

So my options at that point are to find an alternate route or get a helicopter to lift me and my sled in......

How about if you are not a BCSF member then you cant buy a trail pass....... but you can still use the riding area?

I am sure a semi decent lawyer could figure this out.

PS the cabins are a great feature of the trail.

BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

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