Sledders.. BFFs or worst enemy?

MOMMA · Nov 24, 2015

There are lots of awesome genuine people in the sled community, I figure.. but then there are some petty ones for certain. I've been told on several occasions that snowmobilers are their own worst enemy, would eat their own. Compared to the dirt bike community what do you think?

snopro · Nov 24, 2015

We are definately the root cause of a lot of our problems in the back country MOMMA. Cant comment on the dirt bikers as I am not one.

baker8 · Nov 24, 2015

I agree there seems to be way to many folks don't take their garbage with them mostly shrapnel from a crash or rolls gets left behind and it shows up in spring and summer looks terrible

vodoo103 · Nov 24, 2015

There definitely are some off-road riders that cause the same problem, but hard to ignore a group like the Rocky Mountain Dirt Riders that continue to work towards protecting their own area. Large group working to maintain their rights in a small area. With the sledding community, we have a (relatively) small group, trying to protect many large areas.

The long term math is against the sledding community right now.

Highfly · Nov 24, 2015

would eat their own

BURP, Pardon..

Kidding.

I agree. Seems to be a very diverse group. Some that truly care and would help you get a broken sled back to your truck even if it took till 2:00 AM to do it. And then you have the drink excessively, I can do whatever I want , can do no wrong, rules do not apply to me and leave their garbage all over the place as mentioned.

I had an off road tube frame dune buggy (Way before the times of side by sides) for 20+ years and can say the off road group can be as bad. Similar attitudes. I personally think we as snowmobilers are a more hated group than the off roaders are so anything that is seen, heard gets magnified back against us if that makes any sense.

The off road groups do have pick up garbage events where they go out as a group, enjoy the off roading and do a clean up at the same time. They would not have to do this if they picked up their own trash in the first place. But it makes them smell like roses. Kinda hard for us to do that as it all gets buried. Maybe we need to have "I picked this trash up on my ride" bins in the parking lots so we too can smell like roses.........

vodoo103 · Nov 24, 2015

Evidence of tracks and garbage in the snow sticks around a long time.

When you have areas like quartz that have an obvious and VERY clear boundary that some ignore, it's easy to build evidence against the sledding community.
The impact of the remaining garbage when the snow melts also makes a huge statement.

Single track dirt bike trails have a small visual impact compared to large pounded out bowls. May not be an environmental impact, but it can sure be used as propaganda.

0neoldfart · Nov 24, 2015

I've been riding for a "few" years, and have observed that we are definitely seeing more garbage (blown belts, empty containers, etc) in the alpine every year. I'm not certain if it's the "it's all about me" attitude, or simply the large increase in number of riders in the hills (there will always be a percentage of yahoo's that were simply not raised right - these are folks who will ride in restricted or closed areas, too.)
I've always been a believer of "pack out what you brought in", and do NOT ride with those who do no share this belief. They simply do not realize (or care), that their actions are ammunition for those who want to shut down riding areas to motorized traffic, but the harsh reality is that if we don't take care of the backcountry playground, we (or our children), will lose access to these areas...

Bnorth · Nov 24, 2015

Yup we don't do ourselves many favours. As stated earlier it certainly is influenced by the fact that we use much larger areas than dirtbikers and so have less people per square mile to maintain and cleanup these areas. In my experience there are two types of abusive snowmobilers. There are the out-of-towner yahoo that just wants to have a good time and only worries about themselves in that moment and there is also the less mentioned local entitled rider that feels because they rode there before groomers or a club they are free from buying a membership, paying trail fees and obeying closure boundaries. The biggest hurdle for this sport is getting buy in from both these groups to be responsible backcountry users and allow the sled Federations to have a proper voice when lobbying governments. The public has painted us as rich adrenaline junky risk takers and we need to change that stigma. I believe for the last few years there have been fewer sledders killed in avalanches than other backcountry users and that is a huge step in the right direction of removing that label.

Chump · Nov 24, 2015

Had some guys in revy over the weekend trying to convince us to torch our busted down xp. It's people like this thats the problem with our sport. $10 in crazy carpets and you can pretty much tow a dead sled out of anywhere. If your not giving any usefull advice Keep your damn mouth shut

brian h · Nov 24, 2015

as stated previous i also believe pack out what you pack in, and also that snowmobilers numbers of avalanche fatalities is improving which is all a step in the right direction. on another note things like varda doing the cleanup in the summer also helps i believe.they organize a clean up which i feel helps the snowmobilers eye on the enviromentalists which should show we care .

AltaCycle · Nov 24, 2015

Respect goes long way!

takethebounce · Nov 24, 2015

I do not believe one group is worse than the other. Anytime you add fuel to a sport there always seems to be a level of misbehavior that follows all motor sport users around. The "dirt bike" community as you call it, would en-tale a large and varied group of riders that can be as respectful or troublesome as the next demographic in the line up. Some dirt bikers solely ride off road trails designated for bikes, some ride FSR roads, some just ride wherever they feel they are entitled to ride. I ride bikes all summer and even though I am a member of the RMDRA I do not find dirt bikers are as communal and social as sledders either. As dirt bikers we have our own issues to deal with when ATV users try and used our dedicate single track trails, cutting access and widening the trails that the club maintains in S.AB. In the Kootenay's there is a good strong following of dirt bike enthusiasts who ride out of Nelson that are vocal to their needs as riders but other than that I am not aware of any other bike clubs until you go further West.

So in my opinion it is not just snowmobile users who are their own worst enemy, it is every person who steps into the back country for whatever reason without any regard to how their actions are impacting that area for everyone involved. I more often than not see much more damage caused by mountain bikers, building excessive amounts of ramps and berms in the trees, leaving their plastic water bottles and energy bar wrappers through out the forest than I ever do with dirt bikers, sledders or anyone else for that matter.

As motor sport users we are easy targets for anyone who views what we do as offensive or inappropriate. Many people drive full size pickups, many are diesels, hauling big trailers, racing through the mountains so we can ride those noisy, fuel burning machines that in their mind disturb nature and wreak havoc on the forest and mountain areas. We draw attention to ourselves, but more importantly it is negative attention. The greenie organizations are better backed and more equipped to argue that what we do is intrusive and whatever they put on their websites and twitter accounts is obviously true because the average person doesn't know any better and hasn't had an opportunity to see what sledding is all about. There are the local clubs and other groups who are growing and are able to be a voice for our activities but using the Sierra Club and Wilderness Society as an example, these groups will never stop fighting against us as users. They will not stop until there is zero mechanized use of the back country. They have no desire to share.

So again no, I do not believe sledders are our worst enemy. Some of my greatest friends that I have today are a result of sledding, but we do need to more united when it comes to fighting for the continued access to our riding areas and hold those who are problematic accountable.

tex78 · Nov 25, 2015

takethebounce said:
I do not believe one group is worse than the other. Anytime you add fuel to a sport there always seems to be a level of misbehavior that follows all motor sport users around. The "dirt bike" community as you call it, would en-tale a large and varied group of riders that can be as respectful or troublesome as the next demographic in the line up. Some dirt bikers solely ride off road trails designated for bikes, some ride FSR roads, some just ride wherever they feel they are entitled to ride. I ride bikes all summer and even though I am a member of the RMDRA I do not find dirt bikers are as communal and social as sledders either. As dirt bikers we have our own issues to deal with when ATV users try and used our dedicate single track trails, cutting access and widening the trails that the club maintains in S.AB. In the Kootenay's there is a good strong following of dirt bike enthusiasts who ride out of Nelson that are vocal to their needs as riders but other than that I am not aware of any other bike clubs until you go further West.

So in my opinion it is not just snowmobile users who are their own worst enemy, it is every person who steps into the back country for whatever reason without any regard to how their actions are impacting that area for everyone involved. I more often than not see much more damage caused by mountain bikers, building excessive amounts of ramps and berms in the trees, leaving their plastic water bottles and energy bar wrappers through out the forest than I ever do with dirt bikers, sledders or anyone else for that matter.

As motor sport users we are easy targets for anyone who views what we do as offensive or inappropriate. Many people drive full size pickups, many are diesels, hauling big trailers, racing through the mountains so we can ride those noisy, fuel burning machines that in their mind disturb nature and wreak havoc on the forest and mountain areas. We draw attention to ourselves, but more importantly it is negative attention. The greenie organizations are better backed and more equipped to argue that what we do is intrusive and whatever they put on their websites and twitter accounts is obviously true because the average person doesn't know any better and hasn't had an opportunity to see what sledding is all about. There are the local clubs and other groups who are growing and are able to be a voice for our activities but using the Sierra Club and Wilderness Society as an example, these groups will never stop fighting against us as users. They will not stop until there is zero mechanized use of the back country. They have no desire to share.

So again no, I do not believe sledders are our worst enemy. Some of my greatest friends that I have today are a result of sledding, but we do need to more united when it comes to fighting for the continued access to our riding areas and hold those who are problematic accountable.

Well said Danny

MOMMA · Nov 25, 2015

takethebounce said:
I do not believe one group is worse than the other. Anytime you add fuel to a sport there always seems to be a level of misbehavior that follows all motor sport users around. The "dirt bike" community as you call it, would en-tale a large and varied group of riders that can be as respectful or troublesome as the next demographic in the line up. Some dirt bikers solely ride off road trails designated for bikes, some ride FSR roads, some just ride wherever they feel they are entitled to ride. I ride bikes all summer and even though I am a member of the RMDRA I do not find dirt bikers are as communal and social as sledders either. As dirt bikers we have our own issues to deal with when ATV users try and used our dedicate single track trails, cutting access and widening the trails that the club maintains in S.AB. In the Kootenay's there is a good strong following of dirt bike enthusiasts who ride out of Nelson that are vocal to their needs as riders but other than that I am not aware of any other bike clubs until you go further West.

So in my opinion it is not just snowmobile users who are their own worst enemy, it is every person who steps into the back country for whatever reason without any regard to how their actions are impacting that area for everyone involved. I more often than not see much more damage caused by mountain bikers, building excessive amounts of ramps and berms in the trees, leaving their plastic water bottles and energy bar wrappers through out the forest than I ever do with dirt bikers, sledders or anyone else for that matter.

As motor sport users we are easy targets for anyone who views what we do as offensive or inappropriate. Many people drive full size pickups, many are diesels, hauling big trailers, racing through the mountains so we can ride those noisy, fuel burning machines that in their mind disturb nature and wreak havoc on the forest and mountain areas. We draw attention to ourselves, but more importantly it is negative attention. The greenie organizations are better backed and more equipped to argue that what we do is intrusive and whatever they put on their websites and twitter accounts is obviously true because the average person doesn't know any better and hasn't had an opportunity to see what sledding is all about. There are the local clubs and other groups who are growing and are able to be a voice for our activities but using the Sierra Club and Wilderness Society as an example, these groups will never stop fighting against us as users. They will not stop until there is zero mechanized use of the back country. They have no desire to share.

So again no, I do not believe sledders are our worst enemy. Some of my greatest friends that I have today are a result of sledding, but we do need to more united when it comes to fighting for the continued access to our riding areas and hold those who are problematic accountable.

That was so well thought out! Thank you!

MOMMA · Nov 25, 2015

When it comes to compliance for closures who do you feel is most likely to break the rules, the younger demographic of riders say 20 to 30 or riders who have been around before closures were implemented?

With us being such a social community, has anyone been reached out to or reached out simply because we share the same sport?

TylerG · Nov 25, 2015

MOMMA said:
When it comes to compliance for closures who do you feel is most likely to break the rules, the younger demographic of riders say 20 to 30 or riders who have been around before closures were implemented?

With us being such a social community, has anyone been reached out to or reached out simply because we share the same sport?

Being of the younger demographic I think it's more those that have the "we've been riding here for 100 years, who are they to tell me I can't go there" but there are people of all ages who do not respect boundaries that are put in place for any reason.

X-Treme · Nov 25, 2015

MOMMA said:
When it comes to compliance for closures who do you feel is most likely to break the rules, the younger demographic of riders say 20 to 30 or riders who have been around before closures were implemented?

With us being such a social community, has anyone been reached out to or reached out simply because we share the same sport?

I would definitely say that it's the younger generation. And it's not just in snowmobiling. It's everywhere. I wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from. I'd hope that parents aren't teaching this.... Kinda sad, actually.

moyiesledhead · Nov 25, 2015

MOMMA said:
When it comes to compliance for closures who do you feel is most likely to break the rules, the younger demographic of riders say 20 to 30 or riders who have been around before closures were implemented?
With us being such a social community, has anyone been reached out to or reached out simply because we share the same sport?

As you know, I've been watching sledders ignore our hard work for years. All it takes is one, and the rest follow....knowing very well they're not supposed to. The more it happens, the more "ones" we end up with. Pretty soon they don't give it a second thought. That first "one" was from a variety of age groups, depending on the closure they went into, and day of the week (lots of young shift workers and old retired guys around). No age is blameless here.

Not all of them record it and post it on Youtube though. That takes a "special one". :doh:

catinthehat · Nov 25, 2015

X-Treme said:
I would definitely say that it's the younger generation. And it's not just in snowmobiling. It's everywhere. I wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from. I'd hope that parents aren't teaching this.... Kinda sad, actually.

I don't think you can blame any one generation. Over the years I spent representing sledders, whenever the discussion came up at club meetings it was usually the older ones who stated " bulls!!t I have always ridden there and not going to stop now, let them try to catch me ". After that the young ones just take their cue from them.

MOMMA · Nov 25, 2015

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. I am so thankful for this forum for the awesome feedback I receive when writing articles. I try so hard not to just go by my own perception and research what real every day riders are thinking feeling and doing.
This thread is such an important one I feel. Helps us really be able to reach out and fine tune our sport, clubs and public perception.

Such a huge thank you to everyone who takes the time to reply to my posts. You guys are loved and valued... ps.. my caribou article is coming out soon.. I think you'll like it. Twerk that Miley Cyrus!

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