872, T3 174 clutching set ups?

Turts

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Well folks, I dug into the clutches on my new to me 872. I was expecting some aftermarket kit. Nope. Stock secondary spring and helix(40).
160/290 PL/BL primary spring, stock 438 ramps and 16g pin weight. It works pretty good but but I’m sure there is much more there.
Any ideas?
7000+’, 220 lb rider deep snow and trees...
This engine loves to be loaded up!
 

pfi572

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Well folks, I dug into the clutches on my new to me 872. I was expecting some aftermarket kit. Nope. Stock secondary spring and helix(40).
160/290 PL/BL primary spring, stock 438 ramps and 16g pin weight. It works pretty good but but I’m sure there is much more there.
Any ideas?
7000+’, 220 lb rider deep snow and trees...
This engine loves to be loaded up![/QUOTE

Message Caper11 as he will help you out .
 

Bnorth

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Caper11 has clutched a couple 872's as mentioned above. DJ also has an 872 kit.
 

bayman

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There's a couple of 872's in our group too, but 163s. Caper seems to have the goods though as mentioned for the 174. I run a 174 and have a sorta bastardized DJ set up in mine with a floating secondary, but have a cheater bolted on the side of it. Oler1234 may have a set up for you if Caper doesn't chime in.
 

Caper11

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We have been in contact with each other. That secondary setup is not helping him get the most out of that engine.
He needs to find some parts.
 

mur190

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I have had better better luck with stock 40 degree helix.

to each their own... the reason they make different parts are for different people on different sleds in different locations with different riding styles...

IE: What worked for you may not work for someone else.
 

kanedog

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to each their own... the reason they make different parts are for different people on different sleds in different locations with different riding styles...

IE: What worked for you may not work for someone else.

Well, if you can get an Rb1 to make consistent rpms with a decent backshift feel free to share your findings including what spring worked best for you. Backshift and consistent rpms are kinda universal. If it's not holding rpm in Revy, it's not gonna hold rpm in Vale but thx for the tip anyway. I'm pretty sure if an Rb1 worked for ya, you wouldn't be selling it. Do you run an Rb1 on your 850? Exactly.
 
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mur190

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RB1 worked very well on my stock bore xm... and I have yet to decide what I will run on my 850 wether it be the RB1 or RB2, after break in is complete and I start playing I will let you know.
 

mur190

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Well, if you can get an Rb1 to make consistent rpms with a decent backshift feel free to share your findings including what spring worked best for you. Backshift and consistent rpms are kinda universal. If it's not holding rpm in Revy, it's not gonna hold rpm in Vale but thx for the tip anyway. I'm pretty sure if an Rb1 worked for ya, you wouldn't be selling it. Do you run an Rb1 on your 850? Exactly.

also I kinda disagree with your statement...it holds rpm in vales sugar powder but doesn’t hold rpm in heavy wet Revy snow then there must be another variable to look at.... also there is a possibliltiy of im gonna guess 3-4000ft elevation change between Revy and vale... but to each their own... this is somthing my sled would do when I was running the stock 40 helix...
 
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Turts

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Clutching is such a personal thing. Once you have a sled that has a decent shift pattern, the rest is feel.
Me, I like a sled that is not too “revvy.”
Something that does not take very long to start up shifting again, smooth engagement and will back off the rpms at part throttle.
I know how I want it to feel, I’m just not experienced enough to know how to get there.
I’m going to put a couple more days riding in this combo and then start swapping parts with the help of some folks who are smarter than me.....
 

kanedog

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also I kinda disagree with your statement...it holds rpm in vales sugar powder but doesn’t hold rpm in heavy wet Revy snow then there must be another variable to look at.... also there is a possibliltiy of im gonna guess 3-4000ft elevation change between Revy and vale... but to each their own... this is somthing my sled would do when I was running the stock 40 helix...

The OP is asking for setup advice and all you are offering is a Helix for sale and generic statements. He needs a solid base to start with, not your rejected junk that will cause him grief.
Back on topic. If the primary spring is a 160/290 the spring may be a bit soft or the weight is too heavy with 16g weights. The primary is being the boss and "bullying" the secondary to remain open and therefore causing track spin and clutch heat instead of traction. I had better results with 441 ramps as opposed to 438 ramps. I also tried a combo 438/441 ramp and I ended up going back to the 441. I did a ton of testing and recording of data with the different ramps.
For smooth engagement, I use a 105/385 primary spring. The 160lb start is probably a little herky jerky on the engagement. Hi tech performance sells the primary spring for 35 bux usd. To be sure, I recommend rebuilding both clutches and go from there. It'll be like chasing your tail and a waste of time if one tunes with worn clutch components. Experiment!
 
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mur190

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The OP is asking for setup advice and all you are offering is a Helix for sale and generic statements. He needs a solid base to start with, not your rejected junk that will cause him grief.

It was a simple statement since I have a RB1, knowing that with capers help he will most likely be looking for a RB1 or RB2.
but hey you’ve been a pile of help... thanks KD.
 

Caper11

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I dont like to discuss clutching setups on a open forum cause of how the threads usually turn out.
Ive helped Mur190 and many others with there complaints of inconsistant RPM’s. The secondary setup in the original posters is not helping him, And I will continue to work with him on his setup.

I have my preferred helix which Mur knows, and I can recommend other cuts of helix if he choses.
Once hes ready to play with the clutching on his 850, Ill be more than happy to help him with a setup once again. During that time I should have my 850 setup nailed down. The stock secondary spring and helix on my 19 was the first to be removed.

There is way more to clutching than just feel, the gauges are a huge tuning tool.
 

Stg2Suby

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My last sled (XP Renegade with 141 2" track) had the DJ kit and it worked really well, felt like it made very good use of the engine torque curve. Don't know the numbers but I think the DJ multi-angle helix has quite a spread, maybe 8 degrees?

Now my XM (154 2.5" track) I have close to stock setup - stock ramps PL/PL spring, straight 40 degree helix with slightly stiffer secondary spring. It works pretty well also, but what I notice is it seems to miss taking advantage of the upper midrange torque of the engine. Hard to describe but if it were a 5 speed tranny its like it works well in 1st 2nd 3rd but holds 3rd too long and jumps right to 5th.

Can't help but thinking the different feel between the sleds lies in the straight vs multi-angle helix, with multi-angle having the advantage.

edit: both setups hold 8000RPM WOT very consistently under different conditions.
 
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kanedog

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Well folks, I dug into the clutches on my new to me 872. I was expecting some aftermarket kit. Nope. Stock secondary spring and helix(40).
160/290 PL/BL primary spring, stock 438 ramps and 16g pin weight. It works pretty good but but I’m sure there is much more there.
Any ideas?
7000+’, 220 lb rider deep snow and trees...
This engine loves to be loaded

Rebuild both clutches first order of business. Replace helix and sheave bushings in secondary.
Now you are at square one with fresh parts and a fresh canvas to start.
Experiment!
 

FastFarmer

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I dont like to discuss clutching setups on a open forum cause of how the threads usually turn out.
Ive helped Mur190 and many others with there complaints of inconsistant RPM’s. The secondary setup in the original posters is not helping him, And I will continue to work with him on his setup.

I have my preferred helix which Mur knows, and I can recommend other cuts of helix if he choses.
Once hes ready to play with the clutching on his 850, Ill be more than happy to help him with a setup once again. During that time I should have my 850 setup nailed down. The stock secondary spring and helix on my 19 was the first to be removed.

There is way more to clutching than just feel, the gauges are a huge tuning tool.

so what’s the advise on my new 2019 Summit X then?
 

kanedog

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so what’s the advise on my new 2019 Summit X then?

19/53 gears, 114 chain. Stock clutching. Don't listen to the naysayers. NOBODY has anything remotely close to the ease, cost and performance of two simple stock gears and a chain. Ride it hard. Stop and help other g4's when they blow belts. Mountain and tree riding only. Max speed 102kmh or you will blow a belt. None of that ditchbanging queer flatland riding either. Haha
As an additional benefit, the dealer will have no argument that you changed something. Therefore, no reason to deny warranty. 99% of dealers don't know the gear ratio anyway.
 
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