High or Low Gearing for 174 XM Turbo

bayman

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I posted this on another thread but saw zero action...hence the new thread. What do all you guru's recommend for gearing and why? I have a setup for 2.72 gearing and a setup for 2.23 gearing. I walk around at 250lbs before gear, sled is a T3 174 x 3", running a QR11 helix, 200/290 primary spring and 225/330 secondary spring on clicker 1 and have 3/8" set screws in Dalton pins. Where will I see the better results? Side note, I am running one of these ratios currently and see 105 - 110km/hr in climbs typically @ 7lbs of boost.
 

kanedog

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Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
Go to a big, smooth, steep and fresh hill that you can do at least a 10sec wfo pull with no throttle blipping b4 or during the climb. Mark your primary with a sharpie. Slowly ease into the throttle with NO braaping and get to wfo and do the climb. Stop at the top and take a pic of your sharpie mark and post it here. If you have a go pro, post a vid of the climb.
This test will not work on the flatlands as the primary will easily go into full shift overdrive as there is mimimal load on the drivetrain. The sled needs a good load to do this test.
This test must be done in BC as Alberta hills are too girly.
99.9% of people settle for riding a sled that performs about 75% of it's ability. Once they find out how much work and time it takes to get it right, most bail and listen to what their flatland buddy from Vegreville told them. Then they complain and blame the manufacturer.
 
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Shadam

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Please talk guys. I'm buying my bosses 2015 174 and plan to turbo it for next year so all info is greatly appreciated... Thx
 

bayman

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Go to a big, smooth, steep and fresh hill that you can do at least a 10sec wfo pull with no throttle blipping b4 or during the climb. Mark your primary with a sharpie. Slowly ease into the throttle with NO braaping and get to wfo and do the climb. Stop at the top and take a pic of your sharpie mark and post it here. If you have a go pro, post a vid of the climb.
This test will not work on the flatlands as the primary will easily go into full shift overdrive as there is mimimal load on the drivetrain. The sled needs a good load to do this test.
This test must be done in BC as Alberta hills are too girly.
99.9% of people settle for riding a sled that performs about 75% of it's ability. Once they find out how much work and time it takes to get it right, most bail and listen to what their flatland buddy from Vegreville told them. Then they complain and blame the manufacturer.

have marked the primary with the sharpie, the belt runs to the top of the primary within a 1/16". Won't be at the big hills till Saturday and there will be no gopro footage.
 

kanedog

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Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
I can't help you too much without go pro footage of the climb, the rpm and listening to clutch/motor working together.
If you can borrow a go pro and post a vid I may be able to help. Without a vid and sound I would only be guessing.
To sum it up-get a vid or I can't assist in your gearing endeavours.
How many miles on the clutches?
 

bayman

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I can't help you too much without go pro footage of the climb, the rpm and listening to clutch/motor working together.
If you can borrow a go pro and post a vid I may be able to help. Without a vid and sound I would only be guessing.
To sum it up


Everything is a guess or a theory until it is proven. Primary gets a complete rebuild every season, so maybe a 1000km on it. New secondary spring at the end of last year and hi torque rollers in the secondary have about 2500km on em. Sled maintains 8000-8100 in a climb on clicker 1 and 7lbs. Going to up my pin weight just a hair to get it down to 7900rpm. More or less looking for theories on gearing ratios. Most everybody I talk to says lower gearing to load the motor for the turbo. Jus wondering if peeps think about higher gearing, like a 2.72 gear ratio will help or hinder the sled.
 

kanedog

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Kanedog 2015-2019, thanks for the good times S&M!
Everything is a guess or a theory until it is proven. Primary gets a complete rebuild every season, so maybe a 1000km on it. New secondary spring at the end of last year and hi torque rollers in the secondary have about 2500km on em. Sled maintains 8000-8100 in a climb on clicker 1 and 7lbs. Going to up my pin weight just a hair to get it down to 7900rpm. More or less looking for theories on gearing ratios. Most everybody I talk to says lower gearing to load the motor for the turbo. Jus wondering if peeps think about higher gearing, like a 2.72 gear ratio will help or hinder the sled.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, most people settle for a sled performing 75% of what it can do. When they find out it that it takes a lot of work they resort to advice from their flatlander friends. Kinda exactly like what you are doing. You are doing what is called “chasing your tail” in clutch speak. Good luck.
 

bayman

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Everything is a guess or a theory until it is proven. Primary gets a complete rebuild every season, so maybe a 1000km on it. New secondary spring at the end of last year and hi torque rollers in the secondary have about 2500km on em. Sled maintains 8000-8100 in a climb on clicker 1 and 7lbs. Going to up my pin weight just a hair to get it down to 7900rpm. More or less looking for theories on gearing ratios. Most everybody I talk to says lower gearing to load the motor for the turbo. Jus wondering if peeps think about higher gearing, like a 2.72 gear ratio will help or hinder the sled.

Like I said, most people settle for a sled performing 75% of what it can do. When they find out it that it takes a lot of work they resort to advice from their flatlander friends. Kinda exactly like what you are doing. You are doing what is called “chasing your tail” in clutch speak. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

I lived in Surrey/Delta for 4 years, not many hills there either. whistler is 2 hours, the Coc is 2 hours, golden is 3hrs for me. The of the 7000km on my 2015 sled, maybe 5km are flatlander riding (loading and unloading) as you call it. Just because I live in 'Berta, doesn't mean I don't put on a couple thousand mountain kms a year. Pretty sure 110km track speed on a 174 3" is a little better than 75% efficiency. I just asked for opinions from others who have who my have tried and failed. I am running 2.72 gearing with no chain tensioner required. There has been many gearing, spring combos, ramp profiles, and pin weights tried to achieve a rockin sled. Thanks for your time and well wishes tough. Cheers
 

kanedog

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I can't help you too much without go pro footage of the climb, the rpm and listening to clutch/motor working together.
If you can borrow a go pro and post a vid I may be able to help. Without a vid and sound I would only be guessing.
To sum it up


Everything is a guess or a theory until it is proven. Primary gets a complete rebuild every season, so maybe a 1000km on it. New secondary spring at the end of last year and hi torque rollers in the secondary have about 2500km on em. Sled maintains 8000-8100 in a climb on clicker 1 and 7lbs. Going to up my pin weight just a hair to get it down to 7900rpm. More or less looking for theories on gearing ratios. Most everybody I talk to says lower gearing to load the motor for the turbo. Jus wondering if peeps think about higher gearing, like a 2.72 gear ratio will help or hinder the sled.

So 2.72 is a high gear ratio? Just as I thought, you are an idiot.
 

Teth-Air

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From my experience most turbo guys immediately want to gear their sled up as they believe they will get more track speed. My thoughts are a bit different though. A boosted sled runs heavier primary weights and usually has worse low rpm performance than a stock sled. These 2 factors are what most NA riders dislike about turbo sled performance. So gearing around this off boost situation is important. A really low starting gear will reduce the effects of the off boost condition as the motor will be loaded less. Now once in boost and climbing the track speed is higher than a NA sled and if you are getting to full shift out often then your belt is moving really fast and the belt has very little contact in the secondary. Even though the load is lower, the belt can explode at these speeds and can be slipping in the secondary. In this condition gearing up is recommended. Now you need to look at your riding style and decide at what speed your sled is going when you are loading it the most? This is usually tracks speed on medium climbs at full throttle, maybe 80 kph?? Anyway at this speed I believe the belt should be 1/2 way to shift out or have equal contact in both clutches. This is where there is least heat developed due to most contact and least slip. Your gearing choices appear way too low and way too high with those gears you have. I like to see 2.42-2.52 ratio's for 8 tooth drivers. If then you are over revving/under revving, do clutching changes not gearing changes.
 
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Caper11

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Clutching and gearing go hand in hand, I dont even run that high of a gear ratio in my stock 800 174 T3, are you factoring in the smaller 7t drivers in to get that ratio?
Im unsure if that helix is helping you, but if your setting it up for chute climbing it will work ok.
 

bayman

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Clutching and gearing go hand in hand, I dont even run that high of a gear ratio in my stock 800 174 T3, are you factoring in the smaller 7t drivers in to get that ratio?
Im unsure if that helix is helping you, but if your setting it up for chute climbing it will work ok.

Changing out to 2.52 for a test tomorrow, and may try 2.4 for Sunday if I ride both days. I have had descent results with the QR11 helix, is there one you like better? You run Paul's clutching in think hey?
 

The Kickass One

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Changing out to 2.52 for a test tomorrow, and may try 2.4 for Sunday if I ride both days. I have had descent results with the QR11 helix, is there one you like better? You run Paul's clutching in think hey?

Let me know how that works out... my 154 is 20t 48b so 2.4. Seems to work fine for me but am not a climber and just have it for fun and new to turbo scene.
 

bayman

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Let me know how that works out... my 154 is 20t 48b so 2.4. Seems to work fine for me but am not a climber and just have it for fun and new to turbo scene.

I try and run my gearing set ups without the tensioner just to get away from the dog leg in the chain. the 2.52 ratio is tight right now, get massage it a little to get it to fit. Running 2.72 now and it works pretty well, a lighter guy was seeing 120km/hr in Gorman Lake on my steed in a climb. Now to try other ratios and clutching combos and see what's what. New to the turbo game myself and even though it has been a trying season, I don't see me going away from it.
 

Caper11

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Changing out to 2.52 for a test tomorrow, and may try 2.4 for Sunday if I ride both days. I have had descent results with the QR11 helix, is there one you like better? You run Paul's clutching in think hey?

Pm’d you.
 

Lund

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I posted this on another thread but saw zero action...hence the new thread. What do all you guru's recommend for gearing and why? I have a setup for 2.72 gearing and a setup for 2.23 gearing. I walk around at 250lbs before gear, sled is a T3 174 x 3", running a QR11 helix, 200/290 primary spring and 225/330 secondary spring on clicker 1 and have 3/8" set screws in Dalton pins. Where will I see the better results? Side note, I am running one of these ratios currently and see 105 - 110km/hr in climbs typically @ 7lbs of boost.


If you have the power, always gear up, if you don't your likely to shift out.
Now the biggest problem will be figuring clutching for your application. Most people never figure that out and end up with poor results or results not as good as good be.
Spring's are not the ticket to proper clutching but most go right for the spring change first. LOL
Good track speed on climbs comes with a combo of weight and cam angles. Never springs.
Good luck.
 

mountainsledmania

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@.2.72 you would think that having that turbo would almost be pointless. it would make alot of noise and not do much of making any boost? those hole point of adding the turbo would be to add more hp and be able to turn lower ratios. although this is a 174 so im not sure what gear ratio it comes with factory but i would at least for one ratio lower or for my case keep the stock gearing because the t3s were geared a little to low from the factory to begin with.
 
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