850 turbo 165 (stock clutch) vs Xpert 165 (iBackshift)

lilduke said:

Ive never been a track speed guy. don't get me wrong I like track speed, I just don't watch to see what it is.

can you imagine climbing those on a stock t3 and watching your speedo the whole time? lmao must be a better rider than me!

Click to expand...

You can not, that's insane.
I never watch my speedo, I have a memory recall on my sled for a given run that allows me to check what the max speed was.

Lund said:

You can not, that's insane.
I never watch my speedo, I have a memory recall on my sled for a given run that allows me to check what the max speed was.

Click to expand...

I think my speedo does that too, I never tried to figure it out though. I tune with rpm for the most part, and try to spend as little time as possible tuning. I've bought one clutch kit before, but easier to set it up myself for the riding I do.


I get why there is a market for clutch kits though, and Joes been at it a long while so I'm sure he knows his stuff.

Not sure on joeys thoughts on this but I have used the shockwave helix for years, one of best tuning tools out there for the secondary I seen..and I know other tuners that feel the same, great tool to maximize track speeds, can replace many different helix's in tool box with one helix

You can increase or decrease your helix angle in a few seconds and allows you to find fastest upshift with out having back shift concerns.. amazing the difference you can find with different snow conditions..

When dialed in with shockwave, swap back to regular helix if your satisfied..

In a turbo sled it allows quick adjustment for different boost levels

fredw said:

Not sure on joeys thoughts on this but I have used the shockwave helix for years, one of best tuning tools out there for the secondary I seen..and I know other tuners that feel the same, great tool to maximize track speeds, can replace many different helix's in tool box with one helix

You can increase or decrease your helix angle in a few seconds and allows you to find fastest upshift with out having back shift concerns.. amazing the difference you can find with different snow conditions..

When dialed in with shockwave, swap back to regular helix if your satisfied..

In a turbo sled it allows quick adjustment for different boost levels

Click to expand...

Agree, best helix for tuning. I ran them on a few of my last sleds. I haven't on the SW mostly because I believe I am taming down a lot, age I guess, just satisfied with good enough...LOL

Those chutes in at turtle...my 850t puts up high 50s to low 60s on the run in, when it’s in the rocks it’s turning 50 to 55, if I get slowed way down, off the throttle and stand back in it pulls instantly to 48 then slowly keeps churning to get back to low 50s. Cruises right out of those chutes in the powder conditions similar to the picture. Yes I have watched the Speedo to see what it’s doing.

fredw said:

Not sure on joeys thoughts on this but I have used the shockwave helix for years, one of best tuning tools out there for the secondary I seen..and I know other tuners that feel the same, great tool to maximize track speeds, can replace many different helix's in tool box with one helix

You can increase or decrease your helix angle in a few seconds and allows you to find fastest upshift with out having back shift concerns.. amazing the difference you can find with different snow conditions..

When dialed in with shockwave, swap back to regular helix if your satisfied..

In a turbo sled it allows quick adjustment for different boost levels

Click to expand...

When the trend started on the SW, I called him up to become a dealer. And the phone call was all warm, fuzzy and feelgood. He give me knowledge of the CAD program and CNC machines they use and/or job out to.

• Then I said, "i'll send you drawings of the helix angles I want to make."

At least 5 seconds of awkward silence, i even had to say "Hello" to see if the phone call was cut off. Nope, his voice changed to cold monotone, the temperature in my office dropped 20 degrees.

SW) we dont do that
Joe) you dont do what?
SW) make helixes for anyone
Joe) Ermm, you told me you only have 4 helixes
SW) we did all the testing, you dont need more than what we made.
Joe) Hmm...(now i had to think for a few moments because he put me on the spot)

I said something along the lines of; because of my customer base size and its always increasing, im probably going to find problems that you didnt and if im going to have a problem with you helping me solve problems, then im going to have to pass.

I sincerely give him best wishes for a prosperous future and said bye.
...and that's one of the top best 10 things that ever happened to me in this clutch tuning biz.

Its a good idea and I like it, its practical in application, but its utility (expansion of use to come from it) is choked.

Then one turbo kit I have comes all set up with clutching installed, tried and true.. has 50 kits running the mountains and working well.. after a few rides I decided if I could
Get more out of it, he was running a 44helix.. so I threw SW in it and took out set to approximately similar angle, it ran good
But always had a slight drop in rpm over time then come back on decent pull.. back shift fine

Decided to add more helix and see what it could pull before back shift was a concern.. well the more helix I added it just keep pulling, droped final rpm some but keep back shifting fine.. went up 6 more degrees and it still backshifed like normal, after 6 more back shift was surging..it did need a clicker change to dial in top rpm.. but after it was done it added a marginal stronger pull comming into hill rather than before..

Since then lined up with other sleds and that advantage wsd quickly seen..

To summarize for those snow conditions and HP the SW was a great tuning tool to find hidden tq turned into speed.. would of been much harder swapping all them helixes out to find that with a non adjustable angle helix


Been other days where snow conditions and hp are less than helix can't pull.. a slight less helix and backsfift fine again..

Find it Like dialing in best performance of a race car for trackprep/temp of that day ..

Do wish Kurt would of made the adjustable ramps in helix a little wider to cover rollers more.. seams to be a ware item for rollers and needs to be replaced every few years, but other than that it's decent.. sad he shut down the business and never sold it to some one else to continue..

I do know a guy with a half dozen of them left thou...

Lund said:

You can not, that's insane.
I never watch my speedo, I have a memory recall on my sled for a given run that allows me to check what the max speed was.

Click to expand...

Speedo max recall is dumb and not accurate. I always watch my speedo but I watch my tach more.
The best instrument for speed is a gps speed max speed recall.
Track speed-GPS ground speed=track spin.
Less track spin=more ground speed.

kanedog said:

Speedo max recall is dumb and not accurate. I always watch my speedo but I watch my tach more.
The best instrument for speed is a gps speed max speed recall.
Track speed-GPS ground speed=track spin.
Less track spin=more ground speed.

Click to expand...

Great tuning tool I find.. it your up or down five from previous set up you have a direction for sure.. wish they also had the max rpm still.. always used it as well

Each to there own..

Right? Sometimes I can’t tell by feel but then then the gps recall tells me different. Same climb, same hill, same day. I agree!

fredw said:

Great tuning tool I find.. it your up or down five from previous set up you have a direction for sure.. wish they also had the max rpm still.. always used it as well

Each to there own..

Click to expand...

Fred, MAX MPH recall can be installed in any sled, i'm surprised you don't have a max recall for RPM though.
My sled has both, the RPM recall is factory but the MPH is not, its from Healtech electronics. Easy install and keeps the guessing out of the tuning.

I take a recall reading 2-3times a ride and will do this through out the season in different conditions and monitor track speed changes from what seem normal. Its easy to spot issues when you compare both the max RPM and max track speed on a given run when you already have an average from previous runs. My average is from all last seasons readings, I pretty much know what my track speed will average before I even climb from a full season of tracking the sleds averages.

Lund said:

Fred, MAX MPH recall can be installed in any sled, i'm surprised you don't have a max recall for RPM though.
My sled has both, the RPM recall is factory but the MPH is not, its from Healtech electronics. Easy install and keeps the guessing out of the tuning.

Click to expand...

Both are there on a 850 doo.

New it had the max speed, never new they have a max rpm as well? They use too but thought they got rid of it in 11.. good tools for tuning