NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressively"

Caper11 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
The problem isnt 3 or 4 or 10 it was that there was play in them. If they are solid, 3mounts should be fine.

engineering types out there, what is more rigid a square or a triangle?

In a sleds driveline arrangement, 4 motor mounts work way better than three, there is more forces to counteract.
Id prefer to have 4 softer engine mounts and a torque stop, than three harder mounts.

lilduke · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

Caper11 said:
In a sleds driveline arrangement, 4 motor mounts work way better than three, there is more forces to counteract.
Id prefer to have 4 softer engine mounts and a torque stop, than three harder mounts.

Guess you will have to buy a Cat then...lol

jhurkot · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

You have to take into account the forces that the CVT is applying to the engine. We tried stiffer motor mounts. Your feet go numb and you still blow belts. The xm did not have belt problems. What changed? Clutches, motor mounts, and chassis. You could even add that extra brace on the XM above the clutches for even better belt life. A triangle is a rigid shape by design. If you had a lamp with a triangular base, would it tip over easier than a lamp with a rectangular or square base? I would say yes.

lilduke · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

jhurkot said:
You have to take into account the forces that the CVT is applying to the engine. We tried stiffer motor mounts. Your feet go numb and you still blow belts. The xm did not have belt problems. What changed? Clutches, motor mounts, and chassis. You could even add that extra brace on the XM above the clutches for even better belt life. A triangle is a rigid shape by design. If you have a lamp with a triangular base would it tip over easier than a lamp with a rectangular or square base? I would say it would.

Yes that is why I stayed away from the g4 and still ride my Chitty old xm. Hopefully it will be better this season?

If not I might have to get a Cat. Altough I don't like replacing motors 3 times a season so not sure what to do haha

Caper11 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
Guess you will have to buy a Cat then...lol

Lol doubt it, I’ll stick to my xm. I was on polaris before so i’ll be keeping a close eye on the reviews of the new 850, and the 19 G4. The local poo dealer has been trying to get me on a axys for the past couple of seasons.
The 850 poo has new engine mounts as well, I dunno how many that engine has. Johnny probably knows.

lilduke · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

Caper11 said:
Lol doubt it, I’ll stick to my xm. I was on polaris before so i’ll be keeping a close eye on the reviews of the new 850, and the 19 G4. The local poo dealer has been trying to get me on a axys for the past couple of seasons.
The 850 poo has new engine mounts as well, I dunno how many that engine has. Johnny probably knows.

Yeah the new polaris could be cool. Guess we'll see how that new 850 holds up.

Powpowpow · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

Caper11 said:
Lol doubt it, I’ll stick to my xm. I was on polaris before so i’ll be keeping a close eye on the reviews of the new 850, and the 19 G4. The local poo dealer has been trying to get me on a axys for the past couple of seasons.
The 850 poo has new engine mounts as well, I dunno how many that engine has. Johnny probably knows.

i do believe the new polaris has 5 mounts https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-..._S19EGK8PS_ALL_OPTIONS_(600427)/159713/159774

Caper11 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

Powpowpow said:
i do believe the new polaris has 5 mounts https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-..._S19EGK8PS_ALL_OPTIONS_(600427)/159713/159774

Thank you for the link, And it looks like it also has torque links.

Daag44 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

The Polaris has 4 engine mounts and an engine torque stopper. Doo has been making 3 engine mounts for well over a decade, so nothing new. If one feels the need for 4 mounts, the XM is a good choice. It may actually be a good idea to stick an XM with the power being easier to handle

And of course Kanedog can make the XM pass the 850s and turbo sleds. If you need to find him he's waiting down at parking lot for the BRP engineers to show-up. I actually commend him for boasting his well setup XM. Now imagine that Kanedog would use his same poutine engineering skills to make an 850 work the way he thinks that it should. The best part is he would have one less engine mount to worry about and a far easier to align CVT

Daag44 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
The problem isnt 3 or 4 or 10 it was that there was play in them. If they are solid, 3mounts should be fine.

engineering types out there, what is more rigid a square or a triangle?

Turbo 850s have been make to work on 3 mounts. I guess some things are too simple that it becomes perplexing for the hometime engineers. I think some people would fair better with their time if they took-up a simpler hobby like maybe planting flowers lol For others planting lettuce would be more effective

kanedog · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;q u

There are too many issues to overcome to make an 850 a mod sled. It's been the 850 modding one step frwd and two steps back for 2 years for me now. I would make progress and then the sled would breakdown and sit in the shop for 3 weeks or more, essentially stopping the tuning momentum. IMO, it's best to spend the money to make it more reliable and then enjoy the crap out of it. It really does make the 850 owners smile from ear to ear.
Even people with mechanical issues still say that the 850 is the most fun they have had on a sled. No sled in history has provided the smiles an 850 does. That's an admirable and cool industry first!
Yea, if your turbo 2 stroke can beat my N/A on a deep day, I will pay you $200. Side by side, start at bottom of steep, straight uphill race. The more ya boost, the more ya spin and the more I win. Traction is king. Lets do this you pu,,y ash turbo ego ho m os. Then we have beer! Winner buys!
Daag the Brp engineers want nothing to do with me. I speak the truth, I have no degree or title behind my name, I have no filter and I'm not up their butt. What I do have is common sense, I know the difference between right and wrong and I feel empathy for their customers. That makes me bad news for business and bad news for shareholder relations. So they just follow and creep the crap out of me, harvesting information tidbits and pickin up bread crumbs along the way.
Did you know that two different spring manufacturers laughed at and refused to build the pdrive spring the incorrect way Brp wanted them to build it? Funny how it sacks out within 1.5 years now. Hi Brp!
The above are my beliefs.

Daag44 · Sep 16, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to &amp;am

kanedog said:
There are too many issues to overcome to make an 850 a mod sled. It's been the 850 modding one step frwd and two steps back for 2 years for me now. I would make progress and then the sled would breakdown and sit in the shop for 3 weeks or more, essentially stopping the tuning momentum. IMO, it's s best to spend the money to make it more reliable and then enjoy the crap out of it. It really does make the 850 owners smile from ear to ear.

Even people with mechanical issues still say that the 850 is the most fun they have had on a sled. No sled in history has provided the smiles an 850 does. That's an admirable and cool industry first!

Yea, if your turbo 2 stroke can beat my N/A on a deep day, I will pay you $200. Side by side, start at bottom of steep, straight uphill race. The more ya boost, the more ya spin and the more I win. Traction is king. Lets do this you pu,,y ash turbo ego ho m os.

Daag the Brp engineers want nothing to do with me. I speak the truth, I know what I am doing, I have real world experience, I have common sense, I have empathy for their customers and I answer to no one. That makes me bad news for business and bad news for shareholder relations. For that reason, they just follow and creep the crap out of me, harvesting information tidbits and pickin up bread crumbs along the way.

Did you know that two different spring manufacturers laughed at and refused to build the pdrive spring the incorrect way Brp wanted them to build it? Funny how it sacks out within 1.5 years now. Hi Brp!
The above are my beliefs.

I can't say that I know those details on the spring, nor on how it could be designed the incorrect way.

I also don't know anything about the sled staying in the shop for 3 weeks at a time. Was this a 2017 with the odd cooling system issue? Or a 2017 injector wiring issue, chaffed wires, kinked oil lines? Back in 2017 I had posted pictures on S&M of the various troubles with the first year 850s. If you had a 2017 then it could have been a number of things that turned it into a lemon. So if this was the case then I can understand the step forward and two steps back.

In the beginning we also didn't know about the sheave runout and how much impact it had, nor how to check or adjust the alignment. 2017 was problem free for many while a nightmare for others. So in this respect I have no clue what your challenges were. 3 weeks in the shop at a time would normally mean a far more serious problem then the CVT unless you were holding your BRP dealer responsible to tackle the problem. Seeing that you have a good handle on the gearing and clutching, I doubt it was about the CVT, so that leaves the engine and engine management as most likely causes?

snochuk · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
My hemi only has 2 motor mounts, surely skidoo can make 3 work

I really think the 19 is going to be a good unit.
Time will tell I guess...

Your two motor mount hemi is bolted to a tranny bolted to a cross member to a driveshaft with a mid point steady bearing sitting in a frame with two other cross members next to the motor before the power is put to the tires..
Your hemi has far more than two motor mounts holding it in place.
Your hemi would need to be at about 1500-1800hp to equal output per cc of a sled.
And no doo can not make 3 mounts work as good as 4 (rubber durometer, shims, whatever - lol)- proven two yeas in a row!

But Doo now has the right cooling band aid system for the wobbling left foot heater.

You're up next Daggy!

lilduke · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

snochuk said:
Your two motor mount hemi is bolted to a tranny bolted to a cross member to a driveshaft with a mid point steady bearing sitting in a frame with two other cross members ne to the motor.
Your hemi has far more than two motor mounts holding it in place.
Your hemi would need to be at about 1500-1800hp to equal output per cc of a sled.
And no doo can not make 3 mounts work as good as 4 (rubber durometer, shims, whatever - lol)- proven two yeas in a row!

But Doo now has the right cooling band aid system for the wobbling left foot heater.

You're up next Daggy!

What does hp per cc have to do with it?
Plus it would only need around 1100hp to make the same hp per cc.

snochuk · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
What does hp per cc have to do with it?
Plus it would only need around 1100hp to make the same hp per cc.

Beats me......you are the one that brought hp into the equation.......must not have the 6.4 just the baby hemi.

The rest is very applicable.

lilduke · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

snochuk said:
Beats me......you are the one that brought hp into the equation.......must not have the 6.4 just the baby hemi.

The rest is very applicable.

I was just saying 3 motor mounts will work fine if there isn't any free play in them like there was.

lilduke · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

DI'd you even blow a belt last season?

I blew 8 and my sled has 4 mounts and a torque stop.

snochuk · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

lilduke said:
DI'd you even blow a belt last season?

I blew 8 and my sled has 4 mounts and a torque stop.

I averaged about 300km per belt for the duration of the sled. Last belt lasted the longest after all updates done and is included in the average.
And I'm and old fugger that don't push as hard as I used to.
Don't ride like my avatar any more.

skegpro · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

You would think 3 mounts would be good enough.

Wonder if the bulkhead has any flex to it?

lilduke · Sep 17, 2018

Re: NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressive

snochuk said:
I averaged about 300km per belt for the duration of the sled. Last belt lasted the longest after all updates done and is included in the average.
And I'm and old fugger that don't push as hard as I used to.
Don't ride like my avatar any more.

Fair enough. Let's hope that new Cat works better for you and skidoo has the bugs worked out of the 19 for the people riding those new red 850's .

NEW revolutionary tech will tell us when to take breaks if we ride to "Aggressively"

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