Conjuring creek is private land not crown land

LandOwner

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Hello all,
This my first post here. From my user name I think you all might know my role not as an ATV rider but a concerned land owner.

There is a creek called Conjuring Creek that rests in Leduc County. Starts at Wizard Lake and makes it all the way to the North Saskatchewan River. I am a land owner closer the the NSR side of things. I live on land that I am now the 5th generation to be there.

The issue that I want to bring to light here is that Conjuring Creek, along most of its length, has been destroyed by OHV users. I often hear the excuses "It's crown land...". To my knowledge, there is not one ounce of crown land in Leduc County. I think there is some misconception that the creek bed / high water mark is all public. Even if that is the case the creek is, or was, a fish bearing stream so crossing it is not legal at any level or angle. And, to point out the obvious that there is no public access so the thousands upon thousands on individuals have all been trespassing to do it.

A recent article was published by one of my neighbors:


We are working with the county, RCMP and now Fish & Wildlife. On June 26th a joint patrol was done and several individuals were fined including a fish offence of $1250 for being stuck in the creek. Many warnings were handed out. Again, all of this happening on private land.

The message I want to get out here is that it is all private land and that anyone coming here can expect to get themselves in some hot water. I am also looking for any other sites like this where I can get the message out. Is there a site dedicated to OHV usage for this area, or, has anyone come across a posting or Facebook page that promotes quading in this area? Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks.
 

Kaz Dog

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Snow and Mud also has a Facebook page. It would be valuable to you to repost what you have written here, and with a picture/map of the creek to help out too. Just a suggestion.
 

snochuk

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Not surprised to read this, it is amazing how many people think "the quad purchase" is the license to go where you want.
Just because there is forest or trail does not make it good to go.
Feel sorry for the senior who feels trapped and unsafe.

Confronted some guys in McBride riding out of bounds last winter. Not sure it would have turned out well if the numbers had not been eve on both sides.
 

LandOwner

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Snow and Mud also has a Facebook page. It would be valuable to you to repost what you have written here, and with a picture/map of the creek to help out too. Just a suggestion.

Thanks, I registered on Facebook and got a posting there. Lots of looks so this is a win to me.

Regarding the neighbor mentioned that is me. I'm cutting the grass near the range road, turn to get the next pass and I see a wheel coming down on me. The two dirt bikers thought it would be fun to pull a wheely going full out by my head. This was 2 summers ago. Other than a quick scare ....for no reason except they sick pleasure, that was it. I did think about getting my 12 gauge, load with 3 slugs, and go and get the vehicle to find them. But, my common sense prevails. My thoughts of what I want to do are something else.

This spring someone thought it was okay to discharge a semi-automatic in the creek and on our neighbors land. Another quader when stopped by the county reporting seeing this on more than one occasion in the creek. This stopped random patrols by Leduc County so now it is only quad patrols by RCMP and Fish and Wildlife (i.e. armed experts).

This spring I had my dad out of the hospital in 2 months to have a nice BarBQ. That was cut short when a forest fire was started by 2 supposed dirt bikers in the creek during the OHV ban - same time Fort McMurray was burning to the ground. The 4 counties involved in fighting the fire got it out in time but only 1 km from our house. We had the RV packed and ready to run. Totally ruined what should have been a great family day.

The word I use is lawless - total and utter lawlessness prevails here. That will change. It will have to.

I can provide endless stories like the above. I'm only hitting the tip of the iceberg here. When I hear people say "too bad a few have to ruin it...", it is not a few. There are really bad apples like the ones I'm talking about here but I find it is an endless horde of wrong doers as snochuk put it so well where they feel entitled to be there and go where they want.
 

the_real_wild1

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Do you have signs up stating it is private property? It may help if you have them posted every where.
 

neilsleder

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I find the guys how travel to go off roading usually take it more seriously and treat stuff with more respect. It's the guys that ride in there "backyard" that tend to trespass more, it's like they grew up near there so it's ok if I go there. At least that's what I find how it goes.
I am not sure where this creek is that you live by but got a good idea, and I to had a bad experience while on the river with guys out there with guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

arff

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Just a question as I am not a sled rider but many are on this site.

Are sleds allowed??
 

LandOwner

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Do you have signs up stating it is private property? It may help if you have them posted every where.

Tons! We also place the signs where vandalism takes place so the vandalism happens under a "Private Property - No Trespassing" sign. Eventually most signs fall to vandalism as well. So far, 27 and counting over the past 6 months have been taken or destroyed. This includes signs 25 feet up in trees. This disregard for these is pretty incredible really. But, we have to keep at it so it is a clear thing to all. Right now we have about 8 signs up on our property alone and I'm replacing 2 destroyed ones this weekend.
 

LandOwner

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Just a question as I am not a sled rider but many are on this site.

Are sleds allowed??

No, trespassing is trespassing. The quaders and vandals have ruined it for the rest. There are 6 neighbors banding together in the same area which own a total of 11 quarter sections. I expect this to rise as we fan out our message to other neighbors and hopefully the entire creek water shed - from Wizard Lake all the way to the NSR. More and more neighbors are coming together to help each other stop this. I would not be surprised of a total ban on OHVs in the creek. I see Wizard Lake area is already considering this.

I hope this is understandable to everyone. With the problem quaders gone we can then focus on stream rehabilitation. There used to be fish regularly in this creek but only small ones now that end up usually not making it very long or very far.

P.S. A lot of the residents are older land owners and have been scared to do anymore or even go near the creek on their own lands....crazy! This is becoming a very positive thing to them.
 

lilduke

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Water is crown property and its use is regulated by various provincial and in some cases federal legislation. As a general rule, no licence or permit is required to use water for domestic purposes, including some agricultural usage.


A landowner cannot alter waterways running through his land if it will affect water flows or individuals downstream. Thus, a landowner cannot create a private dam to block the flow of a creek unless she has specific permission from the appropriate provincial authority. Bodies of water, such as sloughs, solely enclosed within a landowner’s property, can be drained or changed by the landowner.


Stream and lake beds are crown property. This was affirmed by the 1894 North-West Irrigation Act and by a 1932 Supreme Court of Canada decision.


The principle that lake beds and streams are crown property continues in current legislation. Manitoba’s Crown Lands Act reserves the bed of a body of water and a strip of land 30 metres from the highwater mark for the crown.


If land borders a navigable waterway, the crown also reserves “the public right of landing from, and mooring, boats and vessels so far as is reasonably necessary.”
 

lilduke

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I feel the guy's pain. And I'm not speaking to the OHV issue. But sorry, you don't own the creek.
 
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LandOwner

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I feel the guy's pain. And I'm not speaking to the OHV issue. But sorry, you don't own the creek.

This is actually why this stuff happens. It angers me to hear you say this. Never did I say "I own the creek". The land surrounding the creek is all private. As per our discussions with Fish and Wildlife the creek itself is a fish bearing stream. It is illegal to cross and fines will be levied. Given this, why would any OHV user be anywhere near this area - all private land and no stream crossings???? So when a person owning a quad drives their vehicle onto private property, parks there, unloads his/her quad, crosses private property on their quad and then drives through the creek is okay? Same as driving your quad to the property and across private property - All wrong! Read the article and see the quotes from the county enforcement. Also, none of these OHV users are sticking to the creek. They drive through it and down / up it. Then they cross on private property throughout the creek - well above the high water allotment - kms upon kms of private land crossed - fences cut - fences ridden over. There nothing legal about any of this. And trust me, we have the backing of all levels of law enforcement on this - all in agreement. 
 

lilduke

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This is actually why this stuff happens. It angers me to hear you say this. Never did I say "I own the creek". The land surrounding the creek is all private. As per our discussions with Fish and Wildlife the creek itself is a fish bearing stream. It is illegal to cross and fines will be levied. Given this, why would any OHV user be anywhere near this area - all private land and no stream crossings???? So when a person owning a quad drives their vehicle onto private property, parks there, unloads his/her quad, crosses private property on their quad and then drives through the creek is okay? Same as driving your quad to the property and across private property - All wrong! Read the article and see the quotes from the county enforcement. Also, none of these OHV users are sticking to the creek. They drive through it and down / up it. Then they cross on private property throughout the creek - well above the high water allotment - kms upon kms of private land crossed - fences cut - fences ridden over. There nothing legal about any of this. And trust me, we have the backing of all levels of law enforcement on this - all in agreement. 

Well the title say"Conjuring Creek is private land not crown land" That kinda angers me cause that is total BS. Like I said I feel your pain, but if I wanted to stage my snowmobile at the North Saskatchewan River and then ride up and down conjuring creek when the river is frozen, id be in NO way trespassing or disturbing the creek.
Totally legal bud.

What if I owned property on the creek and wanted to stage from there? No one on the creek owns a OHV? Yeah right. Anyways I won't be going to ride there ever and good luck with your fight.
 
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Stompin Tom

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One of the problems that off road users, (ATV, UTV, Sledders) have is the image of a bunch of self entitled a$$holes who disrespect those around them who they cause problems for. We wonder why more and more areas are being blocked off, why more gates are going up and why more government closures. A much better job must be done by all to respect those around them. If somebody has a problem with you crossing their property, dont cross it. Dont stand there and argue with a tape measure in your hand, try to cooperate.

The biggest problem for off road users is the off road users themselves, we are our own worst enemies.
 

LandOwner

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Well the title say"Conjuring Creek is private land not crown land" That kinda angers me cause that is total BS. Like I said I feel your pain, but if I wanted to stage my snowmobile at the North Saskatchewan River and then ride up and down conjuring creek when the river is frozen, id be in NO way trespassing or disturbing the creek.
Totally legal bud.

What if I owned property on the creek and wanted to stage from there? No one on the creek owns a OHV? Yeah right. Anyways I won't be going to ride there ever and good luck with your fight.

Then I'll change the title just for you so you feel better. So I see you are part of the problem and not the solution. If you want to ride your skidoo down the creek you are more than welcome to. Safe for the fish too rather than OHVs in the spring when there are actually fish in there and real destruction is done. But when you run into an obstruction including a fence across the creek (meaning across but with space under to not obstruct) what do you do? Trespass? That is what happens all the time. With or without fencing / obstacles. I ask all my neighbors if anyone has ever asked them to permission to quad / snowmobile at any time. The answer so far - 0%. A responsible OHV user would check this out ahead of time and know where they are riding, and get permission. We do have some hunters asking permission to hunt - that I respect. Based on your response, I'm guessing you are not one of these responsible OHV owners. This is why there are problems and landowners and OHV users clash. Too bad you are so short sighted to see this.

P.S. I changed my mind. You are never allowed to skidoo on my land - because you didn't ask permission. If you want my permission, permit me to come to you land. I'll skidoo on it. I'll quad on it in the spring when it is nice and soft. I'll shoot off my guns when I feel like it. Then you might change your tune and know what it feels like to be victomized by someone like yourself that doesn't take the time to do the decent thing - like ask.
 

LandOwner

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One of the problems that off road users, (ATV, UTV, Sledders) have is the image of a bunch of self entitled a$$holes who disrespect those around them who they cause problems for. We wonder why more and more areas are being blocked off, why more gates are going up and why more government closures. A much better job must be done by all to respect those around them. If somebody has a problem with you crossing their property, dont cross it. Dont stand there and argue with a tape measure in your hand, try to cooperate.

The biggest problem for off road users is the off road users themselves, we are our own worst enemies.

Agree, 100%. You now know you have one of your own members, lilduke, who is ruining for others.
 

lilduke

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Then I'll change the title just for you so you feel better. So I see you are part of the problem and not the solution. If you want to ride your skidoo down the creek you are more than welcome to. Safe for the fish too rather than OHVs in the spring when there are actually fish in there and real destruction is done. But when you run into an obstruction including a fence across the creek (meaning across but with space under to not obstruct) what do you do? Trespass? That is what happens all the time. With or without fencing / obstacles. I ask all my neighbors if anyone has ever asked them to permission to quad / snowmobile at any time. The answer so far - 0%. A responsible OHV user would check this out ahead of time and know where they are riding, and get permission. We do have some hunters asking permission to hunt - that I respect. Based on your response, I'm guessing you are not one of these responsible OHV owners. This is why there are problems and landowners and OHV users clash. Too bad you are so short sighted to see this.

P.S. I changed my mind. You are never allowed to skidoo on my land - because you didn't ask permission. If you want my permission, permit me to come to you land. I'll skidoo on it. I'll quad on it in the spring when it is nice and soft. I'll shoot off my guns when I feel like it. Then you might change your tune and know what it feels like to be victomized by someone like yourself that doesn't take the time to do the decent thing - like ask.

My family has 5 full sections of land in AB(including river and lakefront) and people cut our fence all the fawking time. Hunters, Quadders whatever. Like I said 3 times I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I DO NOT advocate trespassing or TEARING UP the creek. But being on the creek sledding or maybe I just hiked up it to go catch all them fish is NOT trespassing. There is many ways to access that stream without talking to your non comprehending azz.

Entitled azz hole out.
 
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