Heli ski tenures?

turbo_mike · Jan 14, 2016

Can anyone tell me if I can actually be fined for sledding in a sled closure/Heli ski tenure that is on crown land and not in a park? I know lots do it but I just want to make sure and see if anyone has been confronted regarding this? I'm referring to jumbo valley

crashidy · Jan 14, 2016

Depends if it has been designated under the section 58 or whatever like the spots around silent. Or up in weigle world. Technically tenures are fair game from my understanding provided they are not the above.

skegpro · Jan 15, 2016

Where do you check if they are section 58?

crashidy · Jan 15, 2016

Good question!! I have looked endlessly online to find out. I can't find much at all. Only what i can find is from sledgolden maps and trail head signs. Started looking to clarify the closure in the northwest corner of silent. A couple maps i have snow different boundaries. If you have success let me know. There are some random trail descriptions i can find for the jumbo area but nothing else

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MarkCos · Jan 15, 2016

U guys could be opening a can of worms
lol
but I would love to know the info u find ,as
it could be useful for every one
how much is a tenure anyways ?

turbo_mike · Jan 16, 2016

has anyone ever been fined for sledding in a heli tenure?

pipes · Jan 16, 2016

MarkCos said:
U guys could be opening a can of worms
lol
but I would love to know the info u find ,as
it could be useful for every one
how much is a tenure anyways ?

It's one thing to Know but another if use this information for pissing off the skiers. Don't do it. :nono:

turbo_mike · Jan 16, 2016

ive found info that there is a section 105 closure on it.

here is what i believe to be the fine. $115.
Violation Ticket Administration and Fines Regulation

crashidy · Jan 17, 2016

Yup that is what i have seen regarding jumbo.

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Depsnolvr · Jan 18, 2016

If you have questions regarding tenure, I would suggest phoning the BC Commercial recreation branch directly. Usually the staff are very good and actually advocate for proper use of the tenure. If the area in question is under tenure although not being utilized you may have dog in the fight. Up here the ski groups have managed to get exclusive use of crown land under the Sec 58. Whether you like it or not, there is only one way to go about initiating change and that is to join clubs, attend meetings, be an active volunteer and catch the ear of your local MLA (but it needs to come from more than just one, sledders need to get better organized).

pano-dude · Jan 30, 2016

Lots of other areas to ride, why the need to poach ski terrain???

iceman5689 · Jan 31, 2016

pano-dude said:
Lots of other areas to ride, why the need to poach ski terrain???

Rye not? I feel most of these easier accessible areas by snowmobile should be common interests. A good example of this is Chatter Creek, both parties can enjoy the terrain. Last time I checked sleds don't fly, choppers can. This is no difference in other recreational activities. I'm a hunting guide on the side and the outfitter I work for pays the government for an allocation for a certain WMU. This by no means allows us to be the only outfitter in this zone, but only licensed one. John Doe wanting to hunt has every right to on crown land. This is just my perspective, tell me otherwise. It seems everything boils down to money now and it shouldn't be, if you want to enjoy the outdoors no one should stop you.

turbo_mike · Feb 3, 2016

iceman nailed it. the ultra rich heli skiers should not be able to exclude the general public imo. I also find it ridiculous that rk loves to point fingers at jumbo resort proponents for potentially destroying the environment when they fly 8 passengers or less in a heli that burns 400L of fuel per hour with zero emissions usually 2 different groups at a time, but still HUGE environmental impact that get overlooked for some reason.

pano-dude · Feb 5, 2016

rk employs a dozen people who then in turn help in the local economy. Without the garuntee of fresh tracks the business would not work.
Like i said there are lots of areas to play in. By pissing of rk you will make it difficult to sit at the table with rk in negotiations to gain access to the Northstar glacier which is what the windermere snowmobile club is doing now. The club is trying to gain more terrain, get involved with them. Do not try and do something on your own which may hinder the process.

Summitric · Feb 5, 2016

iceman5689 said:
Rye not? I feel most of these easier accessible areas by snowmobile should be common interests. A good example of this is Chatter Creek, both parties can enjoy the terrain .

chatter creek was amazing, but sledders definitely need to respect the skiers up there. The resort maintains the road/trail up to the chalet, so respect where they want you to ride. We were up there few years ago(awesome snow), and stopped at the chalet, and they sent a couple guides with us and showed us a huge area to ride. It was no slouch, that's for sure, it was fricken wicked deep snow, and we got bluebird skies..... the road up to the staging area is what I thought sketchy, but again, it's just a logging road. They told us the odd group of sledders does ride up to chatter and just zoom past the chalets, and those are the ones causing problems up there....

MP Kid · Feb 16, 2016

Hey Pano-dude, First let me say thanks for your updates and your contributions of info to the site. Its nice to hear from people that actually have some insight to the issues. The Columbia valley is my preferred mountain riding area. I would like to say that your views regarding the use of tenured area is a bit different than my own, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the comment of working with RK imply that they are the ones who would give consent to gaining access. This may not be exactly what you meant, but I have had discussions with people that truly believe this should be the case, and this is where the problems begin. The Provincial Gov't of BC has had too "close" of a relationship with tenured organizations, there by creating this sense of "entitlement". I can appreciate the fact that these businesses have certain "needs" to survive, including "exclusive" business in the area related to their industry, but the fact remains that it is a business tenure, and not ownership. I have been very active in my local snowmobile club for many years, and understand where you are coming from when someone does not follow the rules. "one bad apple can ruin the crate". I agree 100% with what Depsnolvr had to say on the first page. First, join a club, but second, and most importantly, getting the ear of your local MLA and "lobbying" your position through organized supplicatory events. Only in this fashion will this cloud be lifted from the currently flawed negotiation\bargaining process.

pano-dude said:
rk employs a dozen people who then in turn help in the local economy. Without the garuntee of fresh tracks the business would not work.
Like i said there are lots of areas to play in. By pissing of rk you will make it difficult to sit at the table with rk in negotiations to gain access to the Northstar glacier which is what the windermere snowmobile club is doing now. The club is trying to gain more terrain, get involved with them. Do not try and do something on your own which may hinder the process.

iceman5689 · Feb 16, 2016

Summitric said:
chatter creek was amazing, but sledders definitely need to respect the skiers up there. The resort maintains the road/trail up to the chalet, so respect where they want you to ride. We were up there few years ago(awesome snow), and stopped at the chalet, and they sent a couple guides with us and showed us a huge area to ride. It was no slouch, that's for sure, it was fricken wicked deep snow, and we got bluebird skies..... the road up to the staging area is what I thought sketchy, but again, it's just a logging road. They told us the odd group of sledders does ride up to chatter and just zoom past the chalets, and those are the ones causing problems up there....

Been riding chatter for past 6 yrs, paying to stay at the cabin. I understand its business and professional approach. It's such a large area, I'm sure you were only shown 10% of the riding area. That being said more then enough for both skiers and snowmachiners to play in. Even during these 3 weeks in April you still see groups parked all over camping and coming in and out in for days rides. Some guys get on edge as they think just because they pay to stay deserve to be the only one in there. Not the case, and nothing a guy can do about that. I actually enjoy seeing this. Makes you appreciate what we all have.

iceman5689 · Feb 16, 2016

pano-dude said:
rk employs a dozen people who then in turn help in the local economy. Without the garuntee of fresh tracks the business would not work.
Like i said there are lots of areas to play in. By pissing of rk you will make it difficult to sit at the table with rk in negotiations to gain access to the Northstar glacier which is what the windermere snowmobile club is doing now. The club is trying to gain more terrain, get involved with them. Do not try and do something on your own which may hinder the process.

Without fresh tracks the business would not work? When you buy a ski lift pass or sled trail pass, are you guaranteed fresh pow??? They don't refund you, it's the price of admission.

pano-dude · Feb 18, 2016

iceman5689 said:
Without fresh tracks the business would not work? When you buy a ski lift pass or sled trail pass, are you guaranteed fresh pow??? They don't refund you, it's the price of admission.

Fresh tracks is the heli ski business garuntee. Why would you spend $700+ to ski over tracks... may as well go to a resort.

pano-dude · Feb 18, 2016

MP Kid said:
Hey Pano-dude, First let me say thanks for your updates and your contributions of info to the site. Its nice to hear from people that actually have some insight to the issues. The Columbia valley is my preferred mountain riding area. I would like to say that your views regarding the use of tenured area is a bit different than my own, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the comment of working with RK imply that they are the ones who would give consent to gaining access. This may not be exactly what you meant, but I have had discussions with people that truly believe this should be the case, and this is where the problems begin. The Provincial Gov't of BC has had too "close" of a relationship with tenured organizations, there by creating this sense of "entitlement". I can appreciate the fact that these businesses have certain "needs" to survive, including "exclusive" business in the area related to their industry, but the fact remains that it is a business tenure, and not ownership. I have been very active in my local snowmobile club for many years, and understand where you are coming from when someone does not follow the rules. "one bad apple can ruin the crate". I agree 100% with what Depsnolvr had to say on the first page. First, join a club, but second, and most importantly, getting the ear of your local MLA and "lobbying" your position through organized supplicatory events. Only in this fashion will this cloud be lifted from the currently flawed negotiation\bargaining process.

There is a group of users from the valley who have been brought together by the government to deal with access issues. Rk is one the sled club is another. The group was able to come to an agreement to allow sleds back on the Catamount glacier 2 years ago. Big win for sledders and skiers.

We are trying to deal with access on a local level as partners. We all know each other and are making progress.
It's a give and take scenario, we may not be winning the war on access but definitely are winning some battles.

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