Heli ski tenure application near crusader and redfish creek

arn2805

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A heli-ski tenure application has been made right smack in the middle of the Redfish and Crusader riding areas. Your access and enjoyment of these areas is in ...jeopardy. You can make comments on the application here: http://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp…
This application is in the very early stages and your input is needed to stop it. There are already plenty of tenures in the Nelson area and public space is already at a premium
 

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freeflorider

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Getting really pissy right now...more loss sledding ground and more arty farty skiing ground taken away from the riders. My thoughts ...here's a stick to shove up there a##.
totaly on board and will pass it around. This is where I started riding and all the good times came from over the last 25 years.
 

FernieHawk

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A heli-ski tenure application has been made right smack in the middle of the Redfish and Crusader riding areas. Your access and enjoyment of these areas is in ...jeopardy. You can make comments on the application here: http://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp…
This application is in the very early stages and your input is needed to stop it. There are already plenty of tenures in the Nelson area and public space is already at a premium

Have there been any discussions with the proponent about current and future snowmobile use?

This is from their management plan
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"> 7.0 Impacts on Other Users
7.1 Public Use and Access
KHS’s ski zones are quite remote and have minimal public use (motorized and nonmotorized). KHS plans to work with local groups and clubs to avoid conflicts where
potential overlap of use may occur. Future road development by forest and/or mining
companies may alter this situation, and our operation will continue to work closely
with public users to ensure impacts, particularly related to safety


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

freeflorider

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Have there been any discussions with the proponent about current and future snowmobile use?

This is from their management plan
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"> 7.0 Impacts on Other Users
7.1 Public Use and Access
KHS’s ski zones are quite remote and have minimal public use (motorized and nonmotorized). KHS plans to work with local groups and clubs to avoid conflicts where
potential overlap of use may occur. Future road development by forest and/or mining
companies may alter this situation, and our operation will continue to work closely
with public users to ensure impacts, particularly related to safety


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not that I have heard, I am going to rase the question with Local clubs. As noted these areas see limited use because they are extreme grounds and not used by most. Again these are areas lots of us go to get away from the masses. These hidden gems are used by locals but will be out of the bag now that riders here are trying to protect lol.
 

arn2805

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I am a member of the nelson snow goers and only learned of this the other day. The club sent out a mass email to members about this so we could comment on the application.

There was a full page article in the nelson star today, that to me seemed more like propaganda about how many economical benefits it could bring to nelson.

It almost makes you wonder if the sitkum rd was deactivated for other reasons.


Just have to keep the word going so hopefully we can keep our riding areas from slowly been taken over. I am all for skiing and economic progression, but maybe they should do some more research to see how minimal public use there really is. Crusader FSR where it looks like they have multiple staging is very busy. Every time I go up red fish I always run into skiers heading up into the tenure area.
 

freeflorider

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I have stirred the pot over the deactivation of sikum. I was on the phone today trying to move forward to reconstructing access again. To deactivate a road is a lengthy possess and it seem as the department of land and field may have push it through with out the proper measures. Claim owners and trappers we not informed of the closer. Hell or hi water this road will be passable again.
i have not received an email from the castlegar club yet but I pm Stephen as it seem like there slipping this by us. Let's spread the work.
 
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moyiesledhead

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To deactivate a road is a lengthy possess and it seem as the department of land and field may have push it through with out the proper measures. Claim owners and trappers we not informed of the closer.

That's the way they do it these days. Nine times out of ten they get away with it.
 

moyiesledhead

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One thing to remember is that tenure does not mean exclusive use. This heli op will not be able to stop sledding in the area.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but heliski companies have been managing to get some motorized closures under section 58 of the forest and range protection act, and they really don't have to do much to justify it other than claim a recreational user conflict. We can't take anything for granted any more unfortunately.
 

Team Pigeon

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The successful application of a tenure is the first step at having their foot in the door. They can then apply for a shack the next year. OR even apply for exclusive in the years to come, it's happened before in this area. People still play dirty Pool.
The application also states they PLAN to work with local clubs. But at the application stage right now, they don't owe us anything.

Is it sustainable, or is it a pipedream? 1300 people a season at full capacity. 11 people for 7 days a week for 4 months straight. Maybe, maybe not. It's ambition and that's what new businesses are supposed to have. Or maybe it's the plan all along..... Why wouldn't you want potential revenue or what a lodge and lobster and filet minion and fine fine scotch and keg beer in the alpine. Entice the locals with your tourist customers spending money in your town and then time passes and ooops along comes the lodge and the gates and the rules. But that's just me thinking worst case scenario / root cause analysis.

Has there been studies/trending done on typical avalanche conditions? Apply in March, operating by December. Fly around a bunch looking for safe terrain?


Anyone got some time to rough plot out their areas as a KMZ for google earth? Be good to have a better visual and see how and where it will affect the nelson riding areas. The screenshots provided are sorta frustrating. No topos = LAME. Didn't even highlight the 6mile / lemon / redfish FSR roads in yellow = LAME. I'll ask operations@kvheli.com , see what they say.

Sled associations must continue applying for land to manage OR this trend is going to continue. The past 3-4 years has seen THREE big applications- exclusive use cat ski above Ainsworth (downgraded to non-exclusive by Nelson/Kaslo/Castlegar), non-exclusive up Milton creek near Grizzly and now non-exclusive in the Nelson Club's area.

It's all preliminary, get comments and questions in, hopefully we can get answers. Gotta hear them out, that's democracy.
 

Team Pigeon

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Yes thanks for this. Will be a good string.

Update here. My 2 requests for polygons was unsuccessful. He kindly directed me to front counter bc. Gotta make time and get them out myself.
 

Team Pigeon

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Got a few goodies. Take the time to fill out the survey, this I'm told is collecting as fact against the application. Local Trevor Campbell, Cartographer.

Applications and Reasons for Decision
Deadline for comment is 29-MAY-2015


Check out the survey below too, print-scan-draw-send
 

deaner

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The sad thing about this is that we dont need to work against eachother.....but we just cant trust them to be able to do that. I have no problem with heli-skiers using all of the back country. Our mountains are amazing and if people want to come in and spend a ton of money to enjoy it then great. Its the fact that they get greedy and want these areas all to themselves rather than sharing them that causes the problems. Maybe I am naive, but I dont see why we cant all share these areas.

Damn it......been in BC for 8 years and Ive turned into a hippy already!
 

moyiesledhead

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The sad thing about this is that we dont need to work against eachother.....but we just cant trust them to be able to do that. I have no problem with heli-skiers using all of the back country. Our mountains are amazing and if people want to come in and spend a ton of money to enjoy it then great. Its the fact that they get greedy and want these areas all to themselves rather than sharing them that causes the problems. Maybe I am naive, but I dont see why we cant all share these areas.

Damn it......been in BC for 8 years and Ive turned into a hippy already!

Same chit with the guide/outfitters in BC. They get a guiding territory and think they own the land and can keep residents out. I agree.....we should be able to work together, but as you said....they just can't be trusted.
 

Team Pigeon

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Bump fells. Just seeing what's going on out there for land use issues. I know this one got denied for the time being but I bet it's sure to pop up again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

arn2805

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There was a new application by another person looking to setup a tenure in the sitkum alpine basin for backcountry skiing. Not too sure on the results of that though.

There has been talk of making an access trail back up sitkum for sled/atv use as well.
 

arn2805

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I believe it is a no go. Selkirk wilderness up meadow on the other hand is trying to expand their tenure. Seems like they tried to sneak that through. In their app they referenced working with the nelson sno goers, but we had heard nothing of this. We found out from the BCSF as they were looking through new apps in the province.
 
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