For your dozer needs

^^^
Well said

We purchased a 79 d6d open cab with rops tilting blade, standard trans,15000 hours and 3306 motor. We also got a 2004 johndeere 270 track hoe from a dealer just outside edmonton i wouldnt recomend buying anything from that guy but thats a hole dif story. The cat for out needs has been good so far few learning curves but prefer the older cats as there simpler to fix and less electrical. If cat holds together will be much cheaper and better then contracting it out.

SnowJunkie82 said:

At 5000hr on a pre emission machine you should still be watching for wear on the hard nose, hard bar, under carriage and bushings on blade and ripper. Motor and transmission should have life left in them, but electrical is known to cause issues especially in the years you are looking at. I wouldn’t own or operate a cat without diff steer, but that is my preference. Also, what is the thinking with the SU blade versus tilt or VPAT? A D6 machine really can’t make full use of a SU blade so having the versatility of the other blades is nice.

The machine I use on the farm is a 2005 D6R LGP with a VPAT blade and a ripper at 7000hrs. In the last four years I have spent close to $100000 on it. Motor top end, U/C (we changed it ourselves), bushings, electrical, etc. It is a very versatile machine and does a lot of things well, but looking at the cost/benefits of owning vs renting I would have been far better off renting or leasing for farm use. I have been able to cross ulitilize it in couple of my other businesses which helps, but I still cringe everytime a neighbor of friend who farms suggest owning one is an economic move. For reference I currently own 6 dozers. All Cateripillar ranging in size from a 4 to a 10.

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At the risk of sounding like a azzhole, your kinda of contradicting yourself. You are telling me to lease or rent when you have 6 dozers. Do you lease or rent all the other machines you are using or buy new enough to offset maintenance costs?

I understand older machines are a problem child which is why I started the thread I don't want to go down the road of nickels and dimes and if I have to spend the extra money and buy newer so be it. The main obstacle for me is I can't dedicate 4 months to use the machine on a rental idea. I'm probably only gonna get a few days here and there when time allows which is why I want to buy my own. I see a 2-3 year project in front of me and somewhere there will be a balance in cost whether it be purchasing the 500000 machine or the old and tired 150000 machine or simply hiring you to do the job. This is what Im trying to figure. I'm trying to make the best decision without buying something that sits in front of the shop being repaired 90% of the time. I see cats out there with 15000-20000 hrs on them, obviously they have had a maintenance bill and are close to the end of life. I've also seen cats rebuilt and advertised with "X" number of Hrs since rebuild. So for me at some point it seems that these machines run out of life and tip the scales to wore out. Every machine will be different based on what they were doing but in maintenance "What" is the main question here for me. When I approach a machine is the undercarriage the main item of question if the engine, Trans, and drive train are maintained to spec and going with the thought that 5000hrs isn't total life span for them. Should I be concerned with 5000 hrs or are we good to 10000 hrs. If I was looking at hi way tractors 25000hrs would suggest to me the engine needs to be rebuilt or was rebuilt and I would be looking for that.

I'm looking at a S/U blade for more capacity in the push. I'm steering away from LGP's so that I can get more ground pressure to accomplish that. I'm also steering away fro 6 way or Vpats because I want a more rigid blade and not to be reliant on hydraulics to hold the blade position. I'm quite familiar with the 3306 engine having run one for 10 years which is why I was looking at the older machines as well as NO Emissions is high with me. The 6 way in my thoughts are for cleaning up and finishing. I have a 18ft blade in front of 600hp that can do that job for me.

Please keep the conversation coming as I'm learning from what you are throwing out there.

Maybe get some thing a little bigger? We have a old d8 for around the farm, don't use it very often and haven't had any major issues.

lilduke said:

Maybe get some thing a little bigger? We have a old d8 for around the farm, don't use it very often and haven't had any major issues.

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I'm targeting D6's mainly because I want to haul it around myself. My land base is spread out so I need to be able to move it instead of walking. I thought about a 7.

007sevens said:

I'm targeting D6's mainly because I want to haul it around myself. My land base is spread out so I need to be able to move it instead of walking. I thought about a 7.

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Fair enough. Just figured it might make sense because you wouldn't be working it as hard.

Good luck though, seems to be a buyers market right now.

lilduke said:

Fair enough. Just figured it might make sense because you wouldn't be working it as hard.

Good luck though, seems to be a buyers market right now.

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Thanks, yes there are some deals to be had if you know what to look for.

Agree with not wanting a 6 way for what you’re doing .
With hours pending year a model ?
Seems to me that the 12000 ish machine tend to have mostly rebuilt components which is good .
10000 hrs ish are in need of all the major components to be rebuilt .
I would be leaning towards the later built D6R series 2 or early model D6T’s without emissions crap.
Some off the Komatsu years are great crawlers as well .
I would stay clear of JD but that’s just me unless it’s low hours .
6500 and more seems not so good .

pfi572 said:

Agree with not wanting a 6 way for what you’re doing .
With hours pending year a model ?
Seems to me that the 12000 ish machine tend to have mostly rebuilt components which is good .
10000 hrs ish are in need of all the major components to be rebuilt .
I would be leaning towards the later built D6R series 2 or early model D6T’s without emissions crap.
Some off the Komatsu years are great crawlers as well .
I would stay clear of JD but that’s just me unless it’s low hours .
6500 and more seems not so good .

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Im looking at a D6H with 5000 hrs on it. Gonna give the owner a call tomorrow and see what it has been doing.

007sevens said:

At the risk of sounding like a azzhole, your kinda of contradicting yourself. You are telling me to lease or rent when you have 6 dozers. Do you lease or rent all the other machines you are using or buy new enough to offset maintenance costs?

I understand older machines are a problem child which is why I started the thread I don't want to go down the road of nickels and dimes and if I have to spend the extra money and buy newer so be it. The main obstacle for me is I can't dedicate 4 months to use the machine on a rental idea. I'm probably only gonna get a few days here and there when time allows which is why I want to buy my own. I see a 2-3 year project in front of me and somewhere there will be a balance in cost whether it be purchasing the 500000 machine or the old and tired 150000 machine or simply hiring you to do the job. This is what Im trying to figure. I'm trying to make the best decision without buying something that sits in front of the shop being repaired 90% of the time. I see cats out there with 15000-20000 hrs on them, obviously they have had a maintenance bill and are close to the end of life. I've also seen cats rebuilt and advertised with "X" number of Hrs since rebuild. So for me at some point it seems that these machines run out of life and tip the scales to wore out. Every machine will be different based on what they were doing but in maintenance "What" is the main question here for me. When I approach a machine is the undercarriage the main item of question if the engine, Trans, and drive train are maintained to spec and going with the thought that 5000hrs isn't total life span for them. Should I be concerned with 5000 hrs or are we good to 10000 hrs. If I was looking at hi way tractors 25000hrs would suggest to me the engine needs to be rebuilt or was rebuilt and I would be looking for that.

I'm looking at a S/U blade for more capacity in the push. I'm steering away from LGP's so that I can get more ground pressure to accomplish that. I'm also steering away fro 6 way or Vpats because I want a more rigid blade and not to be reliant on hydraulics to hold the blade position. I'm quite familiar with the 3306 engine having run one for 10 years which is why I was looking at the older machines as well as NO Emissions is high with me. The 6 way in my thoughts are for cleaning up and finishing. I have a 18ft blade in front of 600hp that can do that job for me.

Please keep the conversation coming as I'm learning from what you are throwing out there.

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Not worried or offended. I understand the confusion. I have a small core drilling business located in BC and we need a couple small cats for moving the rigs and minor road work. Also, recently purchased a small mine (a group of us). In those instances it makes sense because the machines are or will be fully utilized and have specific uses so it is easy to size the machine appropriately.

I suggested renting or leasing in your case for a couple reasons. First, after running a dozer for a week or so you will find what the machine (and operator) are capable of. Secondly, dozers are a high maintainance machine and Cat parts are extremely expensive. With the slow down in the Alberta economy there is likely some buys to be had if looking to purchase, but keep in mind contractors usually liquidate their least desired machines first.

How far are you looking to move dirt? Do you have an excavator. I raise these question’s because a converted cable scraper behind your 600 will move more dirt at cheaper rate than even a large dozer and excavator is versatile enough to fill in the rest of gaps.

Just some food for thought. Again I would be happy to have a phone conversation with you and share what I have encountered.

007sevens said:

Im looking at a D6H with 5000 hrs on it. Gonna give the owner a call tomorrow and see what it has been doing.

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That seems really low for the model ?
If price justifies but diff steer is so much nicer and better resale .

SnowJunkie82 said:

Not worried or offended. I understand the confusion. I have a small core drilling business located in BC and we need a couple small cats for moving the rigs and minor road work. Also, recently purchased a small mine (a group of us). In those instances it makes sense because the machines are or will be fully utilized and have specific uses so it is easy to size the machine appropriately.

I suggested renting or leasing in your case for a couple reasons. First, after running a dozer for a week or so you will find what the machine (and operator) are capable of. Secondly, dozers are a high maintainance machine and Cat parts are extremely expensive. With the slow down in the Alberta economy there is likely some buys to be had if looking to purchase, but keep in mind contractors usually liquidate their least desired machines first.

How far are you looking to move dirt? Do you have an excavator. I raise these question’s because a converted cable scraper behind your 600 will move more dirt at cheaper rate than even a large dozer and excavator is versatile enough to fill in the rest of gaps.

Just some food for thought. Again I would be happy to have a phone conversation with you and share what I have encountered.

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I don't have an excavator but do have one at my disposal if needed. I have used a scraper in the yard to build up where needed, it does work really well.
I'm looking to pull some hills down and fill in the lows. So strip the top soil and landscape a few ancient drainage ditches that cant be farmed through.

We pull 66ft of drill which is not sectional controlled. When you combine small sloughs and bush to go around this equates to overlap. unfortunately when you have to seed a 4ft wide patch you have 62ft of overlap. I have fields that when Im done seeding them I have 20% on the high end of overlap and this is using 2-3" accuracy GPS. To give an example a field with zero bush to go around and out of square will equate to 5% over lap which I think is acceptable. Each acre of overlap comes at a cost $300-$400 extra cost. If you use a modest 10% over lap on 3000 acres your looking at $90000-$120000 extra on wasted inputs. Sectional control is a good argument for this but I feel they have some refinement on that equipment before I buy and the extra cost of the drills is expensive. Even at that Section control on drills will only get you to 5-10% overlap improvement.

We are working towards the same goal on our farm. Get rid of as many obstacles as we can. Out of the dozer, excavator and scraper the dozer gets used the least. That said we are not clearing brush or trees as the farm is in southern Alberta. Not trying to sound negative, but I think you will be disappointed with the amount of ground you will move with a D6H (or any D6).

pfi572 said:

That seems really low for the model ?
If price justifies but diff steer is so much nicer and better resale .

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Yes, I've done enough reading to realize that diff steer is better. It seems some of the older gents preferred finger steer or lever but once they caught on to diff steer like it better.

Kinda like the Skid steers. You couldn't pay me money to run one in the H configuration after getting onto the joystick.

SnowJunkie82 said:

We are working towards the same goal on our farm. Get rid of as many obstacles as we can. Out of the dozer, excavator and scraper the dozer gets used the least. That said we are not clearing brush or trees as the farm is in southern Alberta. Not trying to sound negative, but I think you will be disappointed with the amount of ground you will move with a D6H (or any D6).

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I agree with you on that. Im sure I will be disappointed on the amount of dirt moved. I think the same. I'm looking to push dirt about 100 yards and down hill mostly. Have some fields that have sharp hills that I want to smooth out. I farm stuff up here that you guys down south call pasture land. I have spun out going up hill a few times, need my quad trac back. Worst decision I ever made was going back to rubber tires. However I have some new to me land that is native and comes with lots of trees. I also have lots of sloughs that could be removed as well but I have to be careful cause I might offend a bark hugger or a duck lover.

Yeh you have to be careful with low wet areas for sure .
Wet lands act , and can get very expensive if wrong person decides to take note .
Most times farmers aren’t bothered much unless it’s a big project .
With industry it’s huge compensation depending on classification.

I dealt with Brandt once it was great, the shipped from sask for free and still better then any deal around Berta, not sure if they have what your looking for though.

Ronaha said:

I dealt with Brandt once it was great, the shipped from sask for free and still better then any deal around Berta, not sure if they have what your looking for though.

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I did look at what they had. they do have a variety of pieces but nothing quite what I want.

Did you end up buying a dozer?

Check out Team Sekura Auctions, April 6th sale by Thorsby there is some nice equipment coming up.