Solar Power

j335 · Nov 12, 2018

Cdnfireman said:
So what's the advantage if you can't use your own electricity? and I wouldn't be to sure about believing that factoid about return on investment from a realtor.....ask yourself if you'd pay 8% more for a house with solar panels on it....personally I would walk away from a house with a solar system, not pay more for it....

I agree, not a chance it increases the value directly 8% more. Sounds like some realtor BS
Also when I ran my numbers it’s was 15+ years to payout solar for my house assuming no maintenance and that I didn’t get taxed on my T4 by the rebates... so even longer then

52weekbreak · Nov 12, 2018

DaveB said:
If you dig into solar power “projects” done over the years, most are abandoning as soon as the gov’t funding goes away. There’s projects in Nevada (and Arizona?) sitting un-used because the kickbacks ended making them not feasible....and these are sunny parts of the world.

Not yanking your chain Dave. Just wondering where these are as there doesn't seem to be much I could find on the subject - Just a solar thermal plant and some weird looking solar voltaic plant that looked really experimental. http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Arti...ed-Solar-Farms-Clutter-California-Desert.aspx

Just wondering if there is anything a person could learn from the failures.

RXN · Nov 12, 2018

They sure do make it sound like it's the way to go.

https://trib.al/DiVYrcx

52weekbreak · Nov 12, 2018

RXN said:
They sure do make it sound like it's the way to go.

https://trib.al/DiVYrcx

Haha. Yup. Good salesmanship.

doorfx · Nov 12, 2018

pretty much a bad idea all around....the power generated and fed back into the grid goes into a "bank" for energy companies to buy should they feel the need to... they don't have to, and its at a much lower rate than what you pay the utilities for their electricity....

24. Can I sell energy back to the grid?

Yes, as of January 1, 2009, Alberta established that the energy retailer must buy back exported power at a rate equivalent to the customer’s retail rate. If you buy for 8 cents per kilowatt hour you will be credited at 8 cents per kilowatt hour. This is called Net Billing and requires a Solar PV Utility Interactive system to feed back to the grid. There are ongoing discussions in Alberta about improving the price paid for solar electricity.

Dawizman · Nov 12, 2018

I may be wrong, but I believe any energy you "sell" back to the grid still gets charged a distribution fee.

52weekbreak · Nov 12, 2018

Dawizman said:
I may be wrong, but I believe any energy you "sell" back to the grid still gets charged a distribution fee.

Yeah I wondered about that. I would think it is hard to charge one for the same line charge twice but until FernieSnow mentioned it, I hadn't thought about the T4 tax implications of getting a grant. Sigh. The taxman takes back what the government "gives" away. Wonder if the same applies to credits one gets for buying an electric car?

sledneck__11 · Nov 12, 2018

Battery replacement alone every few years will
cost you dearly depending how many amps and size of batterys you want to run. But id put my money into solar a million times before wind now wind is a joke. Think they cap your selling power aswell and pretty hard to make any kinda proffit at it atleast in saskatchewan anyways

gunner3006 · Nov 12, 2018

Solar could possibly be a money pit like sledding.

Dawizman · Nov 12, 2018

52weekbreak said:
Yeah I wondered about that. I would think it is hard to charge one for the same line charge twice but until FernieSnow mentioned it, I hadn't thought about the T4 tax implications of getting a grant. Sigh. The taxman takes back what the government "gives" away. Wonder if the same applies to credits one gets for buying an electric car?

I stand corrected. There's a fixed base rate per day for distribution, and a flexible rate per kwh for distribution and transmission on top of that. You still pay a fixed distribution charge, but you don't pay anything per kwh that you sell to the grid.

Cdnfireman · Nov 12, 2018

doorfx said:
pretty much a bad idea all around....the power generated and fed back into the grid goes into a "bank" for energy companies to buy should they feel the need to... they don't have to, and its at a much lower rate than what you pay the utilities for their electricity....

24. Can I sell energy back to the grid?

Yes, as of January 1, 2009, Alberta established that the energy retailer must buy back exported power at a rate equivalent to the customer’s retail rate. If you buy for 8 cents per kilowatt hour you will be credited at 8 cents per kilowatt hour. This is called Net Billing and requires a Solar PV Utility Interactive system to feed back to the grid. There are ongoing discussions in Alberta about improving the price paid for solar electricity.

so do the math. Let’s assume a 10kw system at 50% efficiency (generous for our latitude) equals 40 cents per kilowatt hour at 8 cents/kw hour times an average of 9 hours of sunlight per day over the course of a year. That’s $3.60 per day your system is producing. Subtract from that the price differential the power company is gonna hit you with, and also subtract for the number of days per year your system is covered in snow etc. Let’s be generous and take another 20% off for those factors. Now you’re down to $2.88/ day return on what’s probably going to be a 30k investment.
Break even at about 28 years, assuming zero problems or maintenance costs over those 28 years. There’s a reason solar is only feasible if there’s massive government incentives.

FernieHawk · Nov 12, 2018

City of Kimberly is one of the sunnier places in BC...they started a solar farm a few years ago and the results haven’t been up to expectations. I believe they also didn’t pay for the land the solar is located on...pretty sure Teck donated the land. Info is available on the city website.

FastFarmer · Nov 13, 2018

There are a couple massive solar farms in Southern Alberta, like 3 whole quarter sections that show up as black panels. Go to the Alberta Major Projects page and you can see any big project in Alberta that’s on the go separated by industry. Neat map.

52weekbreak · Nov 13, 2018

Some interesting info from a local supplier. According to this payback happens at about 13 years assuming power prices don't go up.

https://kubyenergy.ca/faq

Dawizman · Nov 13, 2018

52weekbreak said:
Some interesting info from a local supplier. According to this payback happens at about 13 years assuming power prices don't go up.

https://kubyenergy.ca/faq

The NDP also said that carbon tax would get us pipelines. Those estimates are extremely optimistic, and made by someone trying to sell you something.

jhurkot · Nov 13, 2018

DUS said:
I wouldn’t do it. Don’t forget about maintenance costs as well. At some point in its life you’ll definitely need to spend money on maintaining and or fixing something that breaks or doesn’t work properly. Those panels also have a life span and don’t last forever. I think some people don’t factor in some of these extra costs it will take down the road. Don’t think of it as a one time install price and you’re done.

Most solar products offer a 25 year warranty provided they are installed to manufacturer specs. There are not many moving parts and maintenance is extremely low compared to wind.

jhurkot · Nov 13, 2018

If anyone is curious to see how much energy they would harvest based on their location and array size, check out https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/index.php

My main issue right now with a grid tied system is you will be effectively eliminating the smallest part of your electrical bill. Look at your latest bill and you will see that on a $100 electrical bill you will be hard pressed to see more than $25 of actual electricity usage. Not to mention the energy you generate and sell back to the grid will be valued at $0.03/kWh. If you were to spend say $10k on a grid tied solar system that was only actually saving you $30/month your payback time would be about 27 years assuming the cost of electricity stays the same. So basically look at your bill and see how much of it is the electricity expense. With the example system above you would still have a $75/month bill (minus any power you generate in surplus of what you use).

The real way to do solar is have a battery and go completely off grid and thus eliminating the entire electrical bill. I would like to do this with Tesla power walls but I'm not sure what the availability of them in Canada is like right now with the Model 3 production ramp.

Dawizman · Nov 13, 2018

jhurkot said:
If anyone is curious to see how much energy they would harvest based on their location and array size, check out https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/index.php

My main issue right now with a grid tied system is you will be effectively eliminating the smallest part of your electrical bill. Look at your latest bill and you will see that on a $100 electrical bill you will be hard pressed to see more than $25 of actual electricity usage. Not to mention the energy you generate and sell back to the grid will be valued at $0.03/kWh. If you were to spend say $10k on a grid tied solar system that was only actually saving you $30/month your payback time would be about 27 years assuming the cost of electricity stays the same. So basically look at your bill and see how much of it is the electricity expense. With the example system above you would still have a $75/month bill (minus any power you generate in surplus of what you use).

The real way to do solar is have a battery and go completely off grid and thus eliminating the entire electrical bill. I would like to do this with Tesla power walls but I'm not sure what the availability of them in Canada is like right now with the Model 3 production ramp.

Even more savings if you are building a new home, and can dump the cost of getting hooked up to the grid in the first place. The telsa power wall isn't the best option either. You could build a far superior system for the same money.

jhurkot · Nov 28, 2018

Dawizman said:
Even more savings if you are building a new home, and can dump the cost of getting hooked up to the grid in the first place. The telsa power wall isn't the best option either. You could build a far superior system for the same money.

Yes I agree! What battery would you use? I like the Tesla powerwall because of the long warranty and connectivity features. Battery technology is really going to go a long way in the next 5 years.

team dirt · Nov 28, 2018

jhurkot said:
If anyone is curious to see how much energy they would harvest based on their location and array size, check out https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/index.php

My main issue right now with a grid tied system is you will be effectively eliminating the smallest part of your electrical bill. Look at your latest bill and you will see that on a $100 electrical bill you will be hard pressed to see more than $25 of actual electricity usage. Not to mention the energy you generate and sell back to the grid will be valued at $0.03/kWh. If you were to spend say $10k on a grid tied solar system that was only actually saving you $30/month your payback time would be about 27 years assuming the cost of electricity stays the same. So basically look at your bill and see how much of it is the electricity expense. With the example system above you would still have a $75/month bill (minus any power you generate in surplus of what you use).

The real way to do solar is have a battery and go completely off grid and thus eliminating the entire electrical bill. I would like to do this with Tesla power walls but I'm not sure what the availability of them in Canada is like right now with the Model 3 production ramp.

Don’t forget to add in a generator for recharging your batteries when there’s no sun.

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