Solar Power

team dirt said:

Don’t forget to add in a generator for recharging your batteries when there’s no sun.

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If there is no sun I’’ll probably quit being a farmer.

Dawizman said:

Even more savings if you are building a new home, and can dump the cost of getting hooked up to the grid in the first place. The telsa power wall isn't the best option either. You could build a far superior system for the same money.

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Cost me $0 for electrical power hookup on my new acreage as the fixed $25 fee eventually pays for it (they give you a $2500 install credit)

jhurkot said:

If there is no sun I’’ll probably quit being a farmer.

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I have been running my cabin on solar for over 10years because I have no other option. Solar is ok in summer but when winter hits it’s 3hrs a day of generator time charging batteries. I would much rather having grid power. My batteries are now needing swapped at a cost of about 6000$ and I get a good deal on batteries as my company buys pallets at a time for our remote oilfield sites. Anyone that thinks solar is a good choice hasn’t ever delt with it.

I guess I'm late to the party on this thread, but this is something I have looked into extensively for our home.

First of all as others have mentioned you don't get a credit on the distribution charges for the power you sell back to the grid. For example I pay about 6c/kwh for electricity and almost 10c/kwh in distribution and transmission fees on that same power. The advantage of this is if you can coordinate your power usage to when you are generating solar power you skip out on the distribution fees. Problem is if any of you are like me, solar panels would generate power during the middle of the day when no-one is home and the power would be sold to the grid, now when I get home the sun is setting and I would have to buy most of my power back from the grid, paying distribution fees on it.

Second, in Alberta you can't generate more electricity over the course of a year than you use, so your cost of electricity may be zero be the fees are still there.

Third, rates of return on solar are poor, by my math I need 18 years to pay back the cost of the system. Assuming the money is borrowed at 0% interest to do this. If the money is borrowed, or could be put in even a low interest bank account instead, then solar makes no economic sense. And this assumes the high power prices we had this last year, if power prices go down the rates of return are lower. The only way this works is if power prices skyrocket.

Fourth, cost of install is still quite high. We use next to nothing for electricity, our stove is gas, so is the clothes dryer, and all lights are LED, we end up using about 2800kwh of electricity every year. Even at this we were quoted a 3kw system to meet our annual consumption at a cost of $9000, and would get $2250 back in rebates for a cost to us of about $7200. Now I've been told to install a bigger system costs lest per watt because the overhead for permits and equipment is there regardless of size, but for us this is what it is.

Overall I thought it would be a cool thing to do, having the energy being used in your home generated on the roof. But at the moment it doesn't make sense from a dollar and cents point of view but eventually I think costs will still come down.

Solar is great for small low usage supplies like RV's and cabins. Unless you are completely separated from the grid, low energy costs in AB right now at $.03/Kwh makes solar a ridiculously high investment, As everyone has mentioned not being able to change the transmission and distributions costs which you cannot avoid, being further away from the equator and producing less energy, and high installation costs as panels haven't really become more efficient in the last 20 years makes it hard to justify.

I have some friends with some significant systems, one in BC as well and other than getting the "cool factor" to check on the website from time to time to see how they rank among other users they say they wouldn't do it again.

I agree in ab not worth it, but in Ontario a few yrs back it had way higher rebates and made it worth it to do. But now alot less rebates so no way

Great inputs thanks! I think solar is going to become more attractive once the true cost of the NDP knee-jerk coal shutdown gets passed to consumers. Sneaky buggers have artificially capped consumer rates until after 2019 when they'll be long gone. Not sure exactly how they're cooking the books but someone mentioned the carbon tax revenue is subsidizing the cap.

Stg2Suby said:

Great inputs thanks! I think solar is going to become more attractive once the true cost of the NDP knee-jerk coal shutdown gets passed to consumers. Sneaky buggers have artificially capped consumer rates until after 2019 when they'll be long gone. Not sure exactly how they're cooking the books but someone mentioned the carbon tax revenue is subsidizing the cap.

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I pay electricity on a variable rate, meaning I experience every up and down on the market. The worst I paid this summer was 9.7c/kwh. right now I'm paying 5-6. What Notley did was cap it to 6.3c/kwh for those on regulated rates like Direct Energy, so every time power goes about that mark money from the carbon tax is used to cover the difference. So you still pay for it in the end, just not directly.

But at the end of the day I still pay less on my power bill being variable, my cost of electricity is higher but the admin fees through Peace Power are enough lower than direct energy to make up for the difference. And when I have issues I speak to an English speaking person in Calgary, not a call center in the Philippines or whatever other third world country Direct Energy outsources to.

I was up to .11c/ kwh.
Still at .08 c. Where are the good deals yall are speaking of?

$6,000 over 10 years = $50 per month. Doesn't seem too bad and would not be far off the delivery charge for power being hooked to a grid.

team dirt said:

I have been running my cabin on solar for over 10years because I have no other option. Solar is ok in summer but when winter hits it’s 3hrs a day of generator time charging batteries. I would much rather having grid power. My batteries are now needing swapped at a cost of about 6000$ and I get a good deal on batteries as my company buys pallets at a time for our remote oilfield sites. Anyone that thinks solar is a good choice hasn’t ever delt with it.

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Dawizman said:

The NDP also said that carbon tax would get us pipelines. Those estimates are extremely optimistic, and made by someone trying to sell you something.

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then guess you need a quote for installation before you go ahead , would be a good idea.

52weekbreak said:

$6,000 over 10 years = $50 per month. Doesn't seem too bad and would not be far off the delivery charge for power being hooked to a grid.

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Ya and a 10000$ kabota geny and 10years of diesel. 3000$ inverter 2500$ in panels 1000$ charge controller 300$ generator start module 250$ system control panel and I hooked it all up myself and built all my own brackets and such. If I didn’t know how to do install it would have been 5-6g in labour. Also don’t forget That inverters do fail. If i were to try and run my full time house on solar it would easily cost in the range of 30-40g to set up. I can buy a ton of power for that cost and not have to worry. Sometimes I think I would have been better off just running a Yamaha 3000w inverter geny full time when I’m at the cabin. Would have been cheaper in the long run for sure. Those things will go along time on 20liters of fuel.

All the schools in Alberta are getting them.
Just be a good idea.

team dirt said:

Ya and a 10000$ kabota geny and 10years of diesel. 3000$ inverter 2500$ in panels 1000$ charge controller 300$ generator start module 250$ system control panel and I hooked it all up myself and built all my own brackets and such. If I didn’t know how to do install it would have been 5-6g in labour. Also don’t forget That inverters do fail. If i were to try and run my full time house on solar it would easily cost in the range of 30-40g to set up. I can buy a ton of power for that cost and not have to worry. Sometimes I think I would have been better off just running a Yamaha 3000w inverter geny full time when I’m at the cabin. Would have been cheaper in the long run for sure. Those things will go along time on 20liters of fuel.

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Where it makes sense is when you are 10 plus miles from the next power line and it costs $100K+ to get power in.

Certainly not challenging either your experience with solar or cost of equipment. I do point out that installing power on to a rural property, assuming you have power at the property line, runs $50 per foot. 1,000 feet = $50,000, delivery charges etc on top of the power you use and so on. Solar technology has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years and prices are way down. At some point the lines will cross.

team dirt said:

Ya and a 10000$ kabota geny and 10years of diesel. 3000$ inverter 2500$ in panels 1000$ charge controller 300$ generator start module 250$ system control panel and I hooked it all up myself and built all my own brackets and such. If I didn’t know how to do install it would have been 5-6g in labour. Also don’t forget That inverters do fail. If i were to try and run my full time house on solar it would easily cost in the range of 30-40g to set up. I can buy a ton of power for that cost and not have to worry. Sometimes I think I would have been better off just running a Yamaha 3000w inverter geny full time when I’m at the cabin. Would have been cheaper in the long run for sure. Those things will go along time on 20liters of fuel.

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The municipality of wood buffalo office in fort has car ports built out of solar panels.
I thought that was a good idea, but looks pricey.

You honestly have to want to do it or try it out. My parents just built at the back of there farm. 5 new poles to string in and run wire in to new meter. $1600. No brainer. Went all thru the solar process getting quotes for solar. Not worth it. Over a 20 year recoup. Convenience is worth something imo.

52weekbreak said:

Certainly not challenging either your experience with solar or cost of equipment. I do point out that installing power on to a rural property, assuming you have power at the property line, runs $50 per foot. 1,000 feet = $50,000, delivery charges etc on top of the power you use and so on. Solar technology has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years and prices are way down. At some point the lines will cross.

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What exactly has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years with solar?

Panels haven’t become more efficient, you can’t transfer more amps through the same diameter cable, if you are using batteries for storage controllers can only charge them to full, batteries are still batteries.

And I wouldn’t say the price is way down. Chinese panels have reduced the cost a little but it’s not way down.

takethebounce said:

What exactly has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years with solar?

Panels haven’t become more efficient, you can’t transfer more amps through the same diameter cable, if you are using batteries for storage controllers can only charge them to full, batteries are still batteries.

And I wouldn’t say the price is way down. Chinese panels have reduced the cost a little but it’s not way down.

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Panels have come down in price, and gone up in efficiency. What was out in 2008 that compares to today? I have 400watt panels today that are the same size as 200watt panels from ten years ago, and they cost 1/4 of what those old panels did. Not to mention the high efficiency MPPT charge controllers, and high efficiency inverters. Top that all off with all the lower power devices today, and solar becomes more of an option in certain situations. Add some small wind turbines in there, and it becomes even more feasible. It is definitely not for everyone or every situation though.

Here's another issue with solar. The prices of the panels and equipment are going down quite fast, meaning someone that bought panels on say a 5kw system 10 years ago has just about as much cost left to recover as someone who would install a 5kw system on their roof today.

Which is the opposite of most consumer products, we buy today because odds are they will cost more in the future. With solar the longer you wait to invest in it the less you are likely to pay.