Environmentalists mourn loss of South Selkirk Caribou herd

ferniesnow said:

The BCSF has done their part. They have had meetings, have the real science, and presented this many times. People in government (the bureaucrats) aren't listening. The bureaucrats have an agenda and that is to listen and respond to the forestry, mining, oil and gas segment. The caribou have been used as a species of convenience to forward their agenda of distraction, towards recreational users and the wolf. With any government in power, this is only going to get worse before it gets better as they know where the money comes from. To get the information regarding what the BCSF has done, one has to attend meetings and get involved. The next species of convenience (as seen in Montana), when the caribou are gone, will be the wolverine. I have personally come across CO's researching wolverine travel around Garibaldi Provincial Park up on Brohme Ridge (out of Squamish in the Sea to Sky corridor) right next to a great sledding area.

moyiesledhead has put in endless hours/days/weeks/months/years pursing some type of management plan to no avail. He has stories about the nonsense that would curl your hair.

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fixed it....

Soooo.... once the last three Caribou in B.C are gone the Caribou closures will be open for the 18/19 season?

Teth-Air said:

Absolutely it is definitely clear the North side of Kootenay pass is closed due to caribou so how can they justify not opening it again when all the caribou are gone?

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I asked that very question of John Bergenske, executive director of Wildsight during a caribou meeting once many years ago. He looked me right in the eye and said "I might find some other reason to close it". It was awesome! I'd been trying to get him to admit that for over a year! Small victory among many losses.

Grizzly bears, wolverines, badgers, marbled murrelets, curlews, tailed frogs.....the list goes on, and I've heard them all. Wouldn't at all surprise me to hear them try to protect unicorn habitat. It'll never end because wildlife is not what it's about. It's Yellowstone to Yukon and any excuse they can come up with and lie about to justify it. Look at me! Look at the huge park I created for no good reason while I put all those people out of work.

jpmez69 said:

Soooo.... once the last three Caribou in B.C are gone the Caribou closures will be open for the 18/19 season?

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They are not the last 3 in B.C. They are just the last in that area and the closures will not likely ever be lifted.

jpmez69 said:

Soooo.... once the last three Caribou in B.C are gone the Caribou closures will be open for the 18/19 season?

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Don't hold your breath. No Caribou north of St Marys Lake/River for going on 8 years now, and that herd of unicorns has been removed from South Purcell and reclassified as Central Purcell. Closures are still in place. Will take nothing short of a legal challenge to change the legislated portion of that closure. Fortunately we managed to keep most of it as a "voluntary" closure in our plan.

Bnorth said:

When did going to the government ever get anything accomplished? Go to the people and media/social media outlets. Use the same tactics as the greenies and get buy in from the greater population that has no stake in the game but through small numbers can apparently greatly influence government via public outcry. Squeaky wheel gets the grease it seems.

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This is what I was getting at. I know they have been to the government but it’s the public outlets that need the rebuttals and forward the pushback via social media. This is important as public opinion can become a powerful ally.

Bnorth said:

When did going to the government ever get anything accomplished? Go to the people and media/social media outlets. Use the same tactics as the greenies and get buy in from the greater population that has no stake in the game but through small numbers can apparently greatly influence government via public outcry. Squeaky wheel gets the grease it seems.

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We need to find a retired teacher or someone good in English, someone that lives in the Kootenays and is a sledder to write something up and sell on social media. Anybody know someone like that? Maybe Doug would know?

Bnorth said:

When did going to the government ever get anything accomplished? Go to the people and media/social media outlets. Use the same tactics as the greenies and get buy in from the greater population that has no stake in the game but through small numbers can apparently greatly influence government via public outcry. Squeaky wheel gets the grease it seems.

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deaner said:

Exactly what i was thinking. You can work with the bureaucrats all you want, but at the end of the day they cater to the masses. We need to launch a proactive campaign to influence the masses. Like the bullchit article above but in reverse.

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LBZ said:

This is what I was getting at. I know they have been to the government but it’s the public outlets that need the rebuttals and forward the pushback via social media. This is important as public opinion can become a powerful ally.

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Do you guys really believe there is anyone (other than the motorized element) that really cares about our ventures. They all think the same way; we are the ones that are destroying the environment. There is no support out there.........they are all brain washed and there is big money behind it. Where are the big OEM's? Have we heard a peep out them? No way and they still put out advertisements showing the destruction of trails, mud holes, and the like.

If you believe in the cause, take up the challenge and get involved and get it done. moyiesledhead and ferniesnow are tired and just want to enjoy what little we have in the time we have!

ferniesnow said:

Do you guys really believe there is anyone (other than the motorized element) that really cares about our ventures. They all think the same way; we are the ones that are destroying the environment. There is no support out there.........they are all brain washed and there is big money behind it. Where are the big OEM's? Have we heard a peep out them? No way and they still put out advertisements showing the destruction of trails, mud holes, and the like.

If you believe in the cause, take up the challenge and get involved and get it done. moyiesledhead and ferniesnow are tired and just want to enjoy what little we have in the time we have!

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I was just kidding Doug, we appreciate the efforts already put in. One thing though, the average citizen does not think there is anything wrong with sledding. They envision a family ride down groomed trails.

Here is the pitch I would like the OEM's to take: Sell sledding as "Part of our Canadian Cultural Heritage" The reason I say this is that it truly has been and still is, in parts of Canada where winter roads are nothing more than a sled trail. Once all Canadians hear the message and realize it you will see that the idea fits in nicely with Parks Canada's mandate. Here is Parks Canada's Mandate: Mandate. On behalf of the people of Canada, we protect and present nationally significant examples of Canada's natural and cultural heritage, and foster public understanding, appreciation and enjoyment in ways that ensure the ecological and commemorative integrity of these places for present and future generations

We may never get into the National Parks in Canada but we need to aim high and accept the second best as having the rest of the public lands open to us. If there was as many people wanting to sled as there is skiing, we would have more than enough places to ride.

Teth-Air said:

I was just kidding Doug, we appreciate the efforts already put in. One thing though, the average citizen does not think there is anything wrong with sledding. They envision a family ride down groomed trails.

Here is the pitch I would like the OEM's to take: Sell sledding as "Part of our Canadian Cultural Heritage" The reason I say this is that it truly has been and still is, in parts of Canada where winter roads are nothing more than a sled trail. Once all Canadians hear the message and realize it you will see that the idea fits in nicely with Parks Canada's mandate. Here is Parks Canada's Mandate: Mandate. On behalf of the people of Canada, we protect and present nationally significant examples of Canada's natural and cultural heritage, and foster public understanding, appreciation and enjoyment in ways that ensure the ecological and commemorative integrity of these places for present and future generations

We may never get into the National Parks in Canada but we need to aim high and accept the second best as having the rest of the public lands open to us. If there was as many people wanting to sled as there is skiing, we would have more than enough places to ride.

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It is interesting that our southern neighbours have it organized to that extent in Yellowstone. Can you imagine the furor there would be in Canada if that was proposed here? I'm thinking much worse than the TM pipeline!

ferniesnow said:

It is interesting that our southern neighbours have it organized to that extent in Yellowstone. Can you imagine the furor there would be in Canada if that was proposed here? I'm thinking much worse than the TM pipeline!

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Exactly, we need to be asking for way more and then the idea of settling somewhere in between seems very normal. Compare sledding to ski hills in National Parks. Cut all trees down, pave roads in, bring thousands of people each day, run power lines or run diesel generators, haul semi loads of food and booze each day, deal with human waste and garbage. The masses not only accept this they feverishly support it.

may be mental illness running around


https://youtu.be/ElJFYwRtrH4

I seriously can't believe the people who are saying, "where is the BCSF"... seriously!! Are you kidding me? Where is the BCSF?

We are attending every stakeholder meeting providing our feedback for the "new" recovery plan that's being developed.
We are networking with our clubs to ensure that they are not blindsided by anything, and allowing the platform for each club's voice to be heard.
We are driving around the province, meeting with clubs, attending their local meetings, and meeting with politicians trying to gain support and understanding.
We are writing articles and trying to bring the voice of Science Based Conservation forward.

Locally, I'm the president of Creston's Kokanee Country Snowmobile club, where the South Selkirk Herd is located. 100% Compliance we've had on the pass according to Conservation Officer Hawkes, who is thankful for our compliance, and willingness to work with the process, even though some of the closures presented are beyond ridiculous. At each and EVERY meeting I chair, (but for the one I missed due to meeting with MLA Shypitka regarding Caribou) I present a Caribou update.

Even though the Maternity Pen, in my opinion, was an initiative I didn't have much hope for, when I was supposed to be on Vacation in Arizona, I was organizing sled support (a group of awesome guys from Ymir) to facilitate the process. We had recommendations before the snow fell, warning them of the snow load our pass receives, and that we thought the structures they built were insufficient. This proved to be the truth, so our guys developed a plan b, fixing up an existing cabin. The pen project was canceled, but it was a great opportunity to showcase how willing our user group was to be a part of the solution and also impress upon the fact that we are a user group that can be valuable and trusted.

I was aware of the census numbers, the day before it was released to the general public. From the moment I received the call, I started developing our BCSF press release regarding it. I've watched this forum. Not ONE person posted our response up. Where were you??? The press release was out there in the general public. Social media on our BCSF website... why wouldn't you share our response??? I finally posted it in the Snowmobiling section yesterday... Any comments or a thank you BCSF for all you've done and are continuing to do.
I've had bronchitis then pneumonia for the past 2 months with my blood pressure being crazy out of control. In fact the day that we received the news of only 3 animals, my bp got so high I ended up blacking out when I was chopping wood, spraining my wrist and throwing my back out. (just in case anyone was wondering why I wasn't out riding the pass with all the new snow we received) Just a flesh wound, popped back up an hour later to provide a phone interview with the local radio station.
I've spent the past 3 days on the telephone with reporters in the hopes of our perspective being shared not simply WildSite's (close more lands) .. Amidst all of this, as zone 9 director for the BCSF we have a multi use recreation tenure being proposed near caribou closure areas, causing many snowmobilers to lose their schizzle. Kimberly and Crawford bay do NOT have BCSF clubs, yet those riders are being facilitated by the BCSF, while we try to make sense of the application, and represent our sport.
Today, I'm speaking to a herd specialist who does not work for the government. He specializes in Caribou Conservation, and has information on the captive breeding process I feel will be valuable. While it was a provincial recommendation, the federal government doesn't seem too keen on the captive breeding process. For us, it doesn't lend much hope simply trying to rely upon Maternity Pens which have maginal success, and cost tax payers around 125,000 dollars per animal on the most frugal end of the budget. We are hoping to gather as much information to facilitate the process, and prevent closures that do absolutely NOTHING to recover the ecotype Mountain Cairibou. I've also gone back into historic data documenting that in 1910 the South Selkirk Herd was struggling even then with Climate change being cited as a contributing factor. There was a Caribou hunting closure in 1918... that is what the BCSF does in our "FREE" time.. yup I spend hours researching anything that can help our situation. I'm not alone in this. Maybe Phone Donegal and Crystal and say Thank you. Oh today, I'm writing articles, and responding to questions, with a conference call tonight, followed by another conference call with my Sled Com board with Avalanche Canada.
I have a buddy in town who will be out enjoying that awesome fresh dump of snow we received last night... while I was invited to go.. as you can see my day jobs (writer, wsbc employee, and Kootenay Speed Shop grunt) and my VOLUNTEER BCSF, KCSC, SLED COM have packed quite the day for me.

Here is the BCSF press release that was published many days ago. Share it please.
https://www.bcsf.org/articles/press-release-south-selkirk-caribou-herd-census

Meeting with many politicians this past while. I'm super thankful to have their support. We have a network of MLA's behind us, get to know yours please. (Tom Shypitka isn't our MLA, as our Michelle Mungall detests motorized recreation and science based conservation. She was one of the "stop the Grizzly Hunt" voices. I reach to Tom, as he believes in Science based Conservation, and although he doesn't represent us, in this riding, takes the time to help our voice be heard in Victoria)

Federal Conservative Party member, who is running for a position as our Kootenay Columbia Federal Conservative Party leader Rob Morrison and I


Rob came by twice in one week, so we could discuss Science Based Conservation even deeper.


Meeting with MLA Tom Shypitka. Donegal came down for this meeting. In attendance were members from our club (Josh Salzman and I) and the Cranbrook Club (Tim Hoeshman and Mike) Josh Salzman will be stepping into My position as president of the club for next year, (if elected, and I'm sure he will be) giving me more time to work on issues such as Caribou, and to support the zone 9 clubs.



This is what I do in the summer months. Myself, Kev my husband, our buddy Dean, and Search and Rescue Lead Heidi supplied all the wood for the cabin in Boundary, with Judy Bo and Darryl topping up the Char Creek Cabin. We'll be doing more with the cabins this summer... so if you're wondering where the BCSF and KCSC are... well come and find out. We could use the help.


I'm a phone call away, as are all of our board members for the BCSF. Pick up the phone and give me a call if you have more questions, or email me at tdrinkle@bcsf.org


Oh if you're wondering where I'm going to be tomorrow.. yup you guessed it more conference calls. I have one in fact with ATVBC, to help advocate for ORV use on public roadways. I'll be publishing an article, and hopefully helping to gain momentum with this legislative schmazzle.

You'll notice that Rob Morrison was wearing a Patagonia Jacket in the first picture. It was the perfect time to explain to him, all of the anti-motorized recreation groups that are funded by companies such as Patagonia. We printed out a list, and gave it to Rob. He had no idea all that we are up against. That first day of dialogue was really eye opening for him.

catinthehat said:

They are not the last 3 in B.C. They are just the last in that area and the closures will not likely ever be lifted.

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Never say Never Mr Hat... hehehe. Working hard. I am relieved that Leo is no longer a part of my daily life. Holger, Paul and Aaron are wayyyyyyyy easier, and more logical to deal with. We are developing momentum, and I will absolutely not stop pushing. I am pointing fingers at the eco activists in everything I do. Single Species management, and feel good conservation are killing wildlife in BC. Politicians who use a freakin Grizzly bear as their primary platform to get elected. Stopping the hunt will result in more bears being destroyed than any legal hunting has ever done. Science Based Conservation is necessary.

Trish, we all appreciate what the you and the others in the BCSF are doing on our behalf. Ken and I are well aware of the hours spent preparing for those meetings and the feelings of futility afterwards. Don't hold your breath waiting for pats on the back or kudos from the majority of those you are representing, the very people you are fighting for were the biggest hurdle we had to try and get over. Actually the main reason we finally said F** it we're done. Good luck and watch your health, get out before the stress kills you.

catinthehat said:

Trish, we all appreciate what the you and the others in the BCSF are doing on our behalf. Ken and I are well aware of the hours spent preparing for those meetings and the feelings of futility afterwards. Don't hold your breath waiting for pats on the back or kudos from the majority of those you are representing, the very people you are fighting for were the biggest hurdle we had to try and get over. Actually the main reason we finally said F** it we're done. Good luck and watch your health, get out before the stress kills you.

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Oh man thank you. Remember when I used to be all shiny happy rainbows and unicorns? Ahhhh... the good old days... My BP is looking better this morning 180/112.. (not even kidding, this is on the "good" side. I was supposed to go to the doctor yesterday, but I had an unexpected conference call at the same time).

MOMMA said:

Oh man thank you. Remember when I used to be all shiny happy rainbows and unicorns? Ahhhh... the good old days... My BP is looking better this morning 180/112.. (not even kidding, this is on the "good" side. I was supposed to go to the doctor yesterday, but I had an unexpected conference call at the same time).

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They make pills for that ya know. Medicated life is good!

MOMMA said:

The pen project was canceled, but it was a great opportunity to showcase how willing our user group was to be a part of the solution and also impress upon the fact that we are a user group that can be valuable and trusted.

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In my opinion that's a mistake we've been making for years. We've been trying to be a part of the solution.....but no one cares. And they're never going to. I believe it's time to step back and stop trying to fix a problem we had no hand in creating, and let the inevitable happen. Then we can turn our attention to fighting to get the closures back that were put in place to protect Caribou that no longer exist. That'll be the bigger battle. That's why I fought so hard to keep the majority of our closures voluntary. When all the Caribou are gone, we'll just ignore them.

moyiesledhead said:

They make pills for that ya know. Medicated life is good!

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haha yup I'm on 5mgs every day.. I think I'll be upping my dose pretty quick!