Big Ass Generator

007sevens · Nov 28, 2017

Tchetek said:
With out a panel rewire, a transformer with single phase output is the only option.

Everything needs to be fused accordingly, to the weakest link in the system, that would be the 225 amp panel or the wire feeding it. That panel is close to max load and does not have much room for expansion anyway. I believe you will already have a lug issue as you will need 4/0 wire or larger to feed it.

If planning for major expansion you need to build a larger distribution system, split it up and fuse accordingly, then feed a second panel for expansion.

Or go one step at a time, get this system working, then expand later at the 600 volt level with a second transformer.

Convert to 3 phase, rent the thing out for temp power when you don’t need it, might pay for the conversion.

one other option. rewind the stator in the genset.

ABMax24 · Nov 28, 2017

007sevens said:
one other option. rewind the stator in the genset.

Or sell and replace with a more suitable unit, this unit will barely be loaded running your grain dryer. 225 amps at 240volt, is 54kw your generator is 210kw, so your only going to use it at about 25% load.

007sevens · Nov 28, 2017

ABMax24 said:
Or sell and replace with a more suitable unit, this unit will barely be loaded running your grain dryer. 225 amps at 240volt, is 54kw your generator is 210kw, so your only going to use it at about 25% load.

Theres more then just the Dryer to run. Not sure complete load but approx double the dryer. For right now just the dryer is needed.

Tchetek · Nov 28, 2017

See if you can find a 75 kva 600 3 phase to 240/120 single phase

That would do the dryer.

And do a 2nd 120/208 3 phase system also for your expansion.

Just install a splitter rated for the full load of the geni off the mains.

Then fuse down accordingly to your smaller systems

Then you have lots of options!

007sevens · Nov 30, 2017

Tchetek said:
See if you can find a 75 kva 600 3 phase to 240/120 single phase

That would do the dryer.

And do a 2nd 120/208 3 phase system also for your expansion.

Just install a splitter rated for the full load of the geni off the mains.

Then fuse down accordingly to your smaller systems

Then you have lots of options!

Its a learning curve but I'm getting it. Place the Genset where I want it to sit in its forever home. I could run #2 AWG to the dryer and place the 75KVA transformer close to the dryer.

Now that I understand that a 208Y120 Transformer will give me three 120 volt circuits with a neutral. Across any of the 120 leads would be 208, Because the 208 volt is a product of the voltage between any phase and the neutral (120 V) and the square root of 3 or 1.732 (120V x 1.732+208V).

Now as far as the generator is concerned it has the capability of doing so much more so it could easily have a lead going somewhere else (shop per say) and have a transformer there to service that building.

Does this sound about right?

52weekbreak · Nov 30, 2017

Haha. I love this website. From best battery operated chainsaw to how to hook up your giant generator.

ABMax24 · Nov 30, 2017

007sevens said:
Its a learning curve but I'm getting it. Place the Genset where I want it to sit in its forever home. I could run #2 AWG to the dryer and place the 75KVA transformer close to the dryer.

Now that I understand that a 208Y120 Transformer will give me three 120 volt circuits with a neutral. Across any of the 120 leads would be 208, Because the 208 volt is a product of the voltage between any phase and the neutral (120 V) and the square root of 3 or 1.732 (120V x 1.732+208V).

Now as far as the generator is concerned it has the capability of doing so much more so it could easily have a lead going somewhere else (shop per say) and have a transformer there to service that building.

Does this sound about right?

Pretty close, 120 volt is the product of any phase to neutral, and 208 volt is the product of any phase to another phase.

Now typically household power is split or 2 phase power, so any phase to neutral is 120 volt and one phase to the other is 240 volt.

Have a look at this for 3 phase power voltages:

Regarding your generator your thinking is spot on, you have more than enough power to run a cable elsewhere and place a transformer.

007sevens · Nov 30, 2017

ABMax24 said:
Pretty close, 120 volt is the product of any phase to neutral, and 208 volt is the product of any phase to another phase.

Now typically household power is split or 2 phase power, so any phase to neutral is 120 volt and one phase to the other is 240 volt.

Have a look at this for 3 phase power voltages:

https://ctlsys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/3_phase_4_wire_wye.png

Regarding your generator your thinking is spot on, you have more than enough power to run a cable elsewhere and place a transformer.

So then to feed a 240 single phase panel can we take two of the 120 lead from the 3 phase circuit?

ABMax24 · Nov 30, 2017

007sevens said:
So then to feed a 240 single phase panel can we take two of the 120 lead from the 3 phase circuit?

Correct, technically you'd be feeding it 208 volts, but 99% of equipment out there nowadays can run on 208 to 240 volt.

007sevens · Nov 30, 2017

ABMax24 said:
Correct, technically you'd be feeding it 208 volts, but 99% of equipment out there nowadays can run on 208 to 240 volt.

2 of my motors don't state a 208 rating but I suspect they will run anyway just a bit under loaded

ABMax24 · Nov 30, 2017

007sevens said:
2 of my motors don't state a 208 rating but I suspect they will run anyway just a bit under loaded

Usually they will run at the same shaft power output, just pull a little more amperage to account for the voltage loss. Electrical devices are built to run a defined variance of voltages, usually 208 volt falls within that range for a 230/240 device.

But its best to check with the manufacturer there are some motors that cannot handle running on 208. A burnt out motor would be the result if it can't handle the lower voltage.

Keith Brown · Dec 1, 2017

I have not had time to read the whole thread but you should consider running your grain dryer's on 600 volts. The savings in your monthly service fees and the fact that the diesel you burn to generate electricity is cheaper than farm purple could make it work for your application. 600 volt 3ph is much better suited to your dryer load than 220 1 ph it's a matter of how many months do you pay the absorbent surcharge to run the dryer's less the extra cost of the diesel. There is no comparison in the installation 600 volt is much easier and cheaper for pretty well all components. Running the average farm for emergency power is not that big of deal with out welder's dryer's etc

Tchetek · Dec 1, 2017

Keith Brown said:
I have not had time to read the whole thread but you should consider running your grain dryer's on 600 volts. The savings in your monthly service fees and the fact that the diesel you burn to generate electricity is cheaper than farm purple could make it work for your application. 600 volt 3ph is much better suited to your dryer load than 220 1 ph it's a matter of how many months do you pay the absorbent surcharge to run the dryer's less the extra cost of the diesel. There is no comparison in the installation 600 volt is much easier and cheaper for pretty well all components. Running the average farm for emergency power is not that big of deal with out welder's dryer's etc

I don’t totally agree with this.

Total kW used is the same regardless of voltage it’s used at. Less current at the higher voltage, more current at the lower.

Fuel burned will be equal.

600 volt components usually cost more, but current is less, so sometimes it could be cheaper to run a 600 volt feed because you can run smaller wire. But breakers, switches, receptacle usually cost more.

Ps. He doesn’t want to rewire his existing dryer set up.

Tchetek · Dec 1, 2017

007sevens said:
2 of my motors don't state a 208 rating but I suspect they will run anyway just a bit under loaded

Motors usually are good for a 10% variance. If a motor says 230 volts it should be good at 240 or 208. Just draw a couple extra amps.

Most important items to size correct is the fuses for the feeders and overloads for the motors. They should protect the wires and motors before they burn up.

Tchetek · Dec 1, 2017

007sevens said:
Its a learning curve but I'm getting it. Place the Genset where I want it to sit in its forever home. I could run #2 AWG to the dryer and place the 75KVA transformer close to the dryer.

Now that I understand that a 208Y120 Transformer will give me three 120 volt circuits with a neutral. Across any of the 120 leads would be 208, Because the 208 volt is a product of the voltage between any phase and the neutral (120 V) and the square root of 3 or 1.732 (120V x 1.732+208V).

Now as far as the generator is concerned it has the capability of doing so much more so it could easily have a lead going somewhere else (shop per say) and have a transformer there to service that building.

Does this sound about right?

Yep. That’s the idea.

007sevens · May 5, 2018

Bought more pieces to my puzzle. I found some Transformers a couple months ago. 150KVA and a couple 45kva transformers. they are 600volt to 120/208. They are wire 4 wired delta with a high leg. My question is do you need to use the high leg or can it be used for a separate function such as lights for night time use. The other two legs and the neutral would be my two 120volt and of course the sum of both would 208.

007sevens · Oct 12, 2020

I never replied back on this project. The generator ran lots last year. I think 500 hrs or so. Very little this year. Works awesome and runs very well.

I ran the Generator to a 120/208 150KVA transformer switched the Dryer to 3 phase and added multiple 3 phase motors and components. The dryer works really well. Couldn't be happier.

This year we added two tiers and a roof. Increase over all capacity by 25%. Drying wheat down 4-5 points at 600 BPH

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