Pet Peeves!!

wow i was keeping out of this but my god man just the smell made a child act different??? i'm an asthmatic, have been my whole life.....and i have been in the in the presence of many many smokers.....it has never once effected my behavior, nor has breathing it in at any time effected me to the point i couldnt get away from it and be fine......smoking is what people make it it.....i choose as an asthmatic and non smoker to not make a big deal of it, if its too much to bare i leave......this has happened so little i can barely remember a time off hand......i'de rather deal with cigarette smoke than an air freshener used to cover it up to be honest (which is about as healthy as a cigarette)........and to not be around family because they smoke.....wow......cant think of anything let alone a cigarette that should come between family.......moderation my friend... i'm not typing this to fight....you dont like it thats your prerogative.....you dont think its right to expose others.....understandable, to condemn a group for it, or a few who may light up in a car once and a while with a window down, is like attacking responsible quadders who ride with they're kids....both have their risks and are preventable.....but people still do it.......you can look at anything as harmful, and preventable and not necessary, but why judge others.......do you drive 110km/hr with your kids at all times.....do you let them watch tv, do you let them ride a bike.....drink pop.....eat chips..........run on gravel..........stand by a camp fire........sit on and idling quad......like i said anything can be seen as harmful in someones eyes............

Cyle said:

No if people want to smoke in private places, homes whatever I don't care. As far as establishments....i'm both sides. I think they should have the freedom to choose if they want it or not but I am sure happier to not have to worry about smoking when i'm in a bar or lounge. Most places were happy in the end, because they got MORE business. I have family that smokes, I hate it so much I won't even be around them because I won't put up with the smoke. I refuse to work near people who smoke. It's for health, and I just HATE the smell. So the big reason my kids will never be around it is I won't be around it.

I know it's not the biggest risk or even close, but it's preventable and NO reason for it. My 20 month old nephew was exposed to it.....and I couldn't believe how much different he acted for a few hours after. I can tell you, it is the first and last time he will be around someone who smokes. They weren't even smoking around him it was just them smelling after.

WCB is a joke plain and simple.

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So, lets say you could see %100 of all the toxins ingested by a person over their lifetime in the form of a pie chart. Also, each substance is rated by how harmful they were to that person over that time.

Now, if this person were a smoker, that would be a substantial piece of pie! Exhaust from motor vehicles im sure would be another large piece, and each of those other examples you gave Bogger, would fill the rest of the pieces.

what if you could eliminate a few pieces? what if you were a direct result of adding to that total over a persons lifespan? What if you knew you were adding to that total, but didnt give a flying FU*K, and did so anyway? What if you used all those other pieces of that pie to make yourself feel better about doing some of that harmful damage?

We were not arguing that each of those other elements were less or more harmful than cigarette smoke on a childs well being. Just because a child is forced to breath in all that other Chit, is that reason to subject them to even more? Wouldnt that in fact be an even better reason to NOT expose them to even MORE danger?

Use your head Bogger, not your addict reasoning.

ktm 13-44 said:

So, lets say you could see %100 of all the toxins ingested by a person over their lifetime in the form of a pie chart. Also, each substance is rated by how harmful they were to that person over that time.

Now, if this person were a smoker, that would be a substantial piece of pie! Exhaust from motor vehicles im sure would be another large piece, and each of those other examples you gave Bogger, would fill the rest of the pieces.

what if you could eliminate a few pieces? what if you were a direct result of adding to that total over a persons lifespan? What if you knew you were adding to that total, but didnt give a flying FU*K, and did so anyway? What if you used all those other pieces of that pie to make yourself feel better about doing some of that harmful damage?

We were not arguing that each of those other elements were less or more harmful than cigarette smoke on a childs well being. Just because a child is forced to breath in all that other Chit, is that reason to subject them to even more? Wouldnt that in fact be an even better reason to NOT expose them to even MORE danger?

Use your head Bogger, not your addict reasoning.

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Addict reasoning to one is common sense to another...as stated I choose not to bring it into the home environment the "piece of pie" created by a few car rides and a diluted smell over the lifespan of my children will be miniscule where as trying to drag me out of my vehicle to defend YOUR principal could sorry WILL create a situation of imminent danger...... FUGGG I'm going outside for a smoke, the pretension is suffrocating in here............

When you have children of you own... fugg them up in whichever manner you choose.... until then STFU..........

and i will say i'm not condoning/ condeming anything just saying i dont see why bother to attack......and if you read boggers end isnt the fact of right/wrong or weather there is an effect....its saying you wanna drag someone out of their car and slap them around because of a personal choice........

and my only point is i understand the facts behind the arguement but why attack people when it has no effect on your life personally and the fact that sometimes things are taken too far.......live and let live......

plio7 said:

wow i was keeping out of this but my god man just the smell made a child act different??? i'm an asthmatic, have been my whole life.....and i have been in the in the presence of many many smokers.....it has never once effected my behavior, nor has breathing it in at any time effected me to the point i couldnt get away from it and be fine......smoking is what people make it it.....i choose as an asthmatic and non smoker to not make a big deal of it, if its too much to bare i leave......this has happened so little i can barely remember a time off hand......i'de rather deal with cigarette smoke than an air freshener used to cover it up to be honest (which is about as healthy as a cigarette)........and to not be around family because they smoke.....wow......cant think of anything let alone a cigarette that should come between family.......moderation my friend... i'm not typing this to fight....you dont like it thats your prerogative.....you dont think its right to expose others.....understandable, to condemn a group for it, or a few who may light up in a car once and a while with a window down, is like attacking responsible quadders who ride with they're kids....both have their risks and are preventable.....but people still do it.......you can look at anything as harmful, and preventable and not necessary, but why judge others.......do you drive 110km/hr with your kids at all times.....do you let them watch tv, do you let them ride a bike.....drink pop.....eat chips..........run on gravel..........stand by a camp fire........sit on and idling quad......like i said anything can be seen as harmful in someones eyes............

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Actually yes. How many times do you see a 20 month old walk around holding their head for a couple hours and pretty much not make a sound? Never happened before/after that.....Gotta be pretty dang sure it was the reason.

My reasoning is just as ktm 13-44 said, protect your kids from what you can. I know you cannot prevent/protect them from everything but you can from smoking so why not?

Yes, smoking bothers me badly. I always have sinus/eye irriation if i'm in a closed area with smokers. So yep, I will not be around smokers. Most of my family is the same way. My dad has fired multiple people primarly for smoking. Sick of people smoking while trying to work and we have to breath it in.

plio7 said:

and i will say i'm not condoning/ condeming anything just saying i dont see why bother to attack......and if you read boggers end isnt the fact of right/wrong or weather there is an effect....its saying you wanna drag someone out of their car and slap them around because of a personal choice........

and my only point is i understand the facts behind the arguement but why attack people when it has no effect on your life personally and the fact that sometimes things are taken too far.......live and let live......

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As I clarified, I wouldn't do it if it was their or someone elses kids. I would do it if it was someone smoking and affecting my own kids. If people want to smoke with their kids in the car, all the power to em but you won't do it to mine.

firing someone for smoking.....or as a primary reason is 100% against all labour laws........and where is it you work that anyone was allowed to smoke at the work place........thats been gone for years......

Cyle said:

Actually yes. How many times do you see a 20 month old walk around holding their head for a couple hours and pretty much not make a sound? Never happened before/after that.....Gotta be pretty dang sure it was the reason.

My reasoning is just as ktm 13-44 said, protect your kids from what you can. I know you cannot prevent/protect them from everything but you can from smoking so why not?

Yes, smoking bothers me badly. I always have sinus/eye irriation if i'm in a closed area with smokers. So yep, I will not be around smokers. Most of my family is the same way. My dad has fired multiple people primarly for smoking. Sick of people smoking while trying to work and we have to breath it in.

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You guys have been busy in here today

just pickin up the slack for you ladies......:d.......

Your children have no choice but be subjected to the smoke you are FEEDING them. and YES!!! you tried to rationalize that. You said because your windows were down they barely notice it. "Hey, no big deal baby"

If I'm walking down the street and see some dude beating his kid, should I not do something about it? should i just say "those are your kids, you can cause them all the harm you like, and i should mind my own business"

Some people have an issue with animal cruelty, some with destroying the environment. My Issue is with people willfully harming their children, and making up lame a$$ excuses to justify it.

To me, watching some mother and/or father FORCE their child to inhale all that toxic waste, is as good as a slap in the face. Hell yes I'm going to do my best to help those kids. I'm not going to get physical with said parents, I was just being dramatic to get a point across.

I think I feel the tension building in here.......

I don't even really like dogs, why would I keep a peeve as a pet?

I just tried smoking and I really like it!! I think this could catch on! Gonna have to show my kids how this works. :d:d:d

Hmmm, I grew up with a mom who smoked. Did what she could like Bogger does to keep my exposure to a minimum. Smoked in a room downstairs, windows in the car always open...etc,etc. Mainly because dad and I didn't like it...not because it was a health issue cuz that wasn't known at that time.

All through my childhood I had issues with my sinuses...always seemed like I was allergic to something...spent my youth with burning sinuses, bleeding and not being able to breath comfortably through my nose cuz of how it burned...lots of meds/sprays etc, nothing helped. I started developing migraine headaches in my very early teens and got so I had a couple a week. At that time I worked part-time in a restaurant, when smoking was allowed so my exposure went up. Again, more tests to find out why so many, and so young. Keep in mind this was before cigs were considered harmful in any way

By my mid-20's I had constant headaches, could barely breath and suffered from dizziness quite often. More tests on the noggin....still no reason from what they can find. Cigarettes weren't a targeted culprit at that time...they were still 'cool'.

It got so that I would get a migraine a few hours after I was exposed to cigarette smoke (or cigar smoke), but other smoke (wood) didn't bother me.
The Drs (many, including specialists) finally determined in my 30's that all the health issues I had were related to cigarette smoke and being exposed to it all my life. The sensitivity just got worse and worse as I got older and was further exposed. I have yet to actually smoke a cigarette myself. I also can't breath certain scents/perfumes/chemical smells which never used to bother me, but the sensitivity to chemicals increased. I think that's what actually bothers me is what's in the smoke...it's a chemical sensitivity, and cigarettes are loaded with chemicals.

To this day (I am 43) I can't be around cigarette smoke AT ALL. It's not a personal thing with me, we all have rights. It's strictly due to effects it has on me that I can't breathe it. I can't follow someone closely who is smoking in the car with the windows open, I can't be in the same building as ciggy smoke, I couldn't go to restaurants and bars anymore that didn't have a completely seperate room. I changed my way of life and adjusted my environment. Since discovering what caused so many of my health issues and avoiding ciggy/cigar smoke I only get a couple migraines a year...and only when I'm exposed to smoke. But you can guarantee that if I breathe too much of it, I will be out with a migraine for 2 days...always the same...2 days of my life in absolute pain and sicker than you can imagine...anyone who gets full-blown migraines knows what this is like...if you don't you can't even imagine. If I just get a whiff standing next to you, I'll only be dizzy and naseaus for awhile.

I have NOTHING against smokers, and Bogger you're correct, you have a right to choose how you live and what you expose your children to. But I do know that if myself and my mother could go back in time, there would be no smoking in our home, vehicles or anywhere close to me as a child...and I would never work in a restaurant or bar again that permitted smoking. But as a child I had no choice - I trusted my parents to make that choice which they did, and it effected my entire life afterwards. They did not have the knowledge they do now on the effects of smoking and if it was now they wouldn't even consider it...and my mother has recently quit smoking and can't believe that she exposed me to it as an unwilling child and it bothers her that she influenced my health problems because she smoked around me my entire youth, even though she was cautious in her exposure to me.

So after my entire life being affected by second-hand cigarette smoke, I can't be around it at all, I get dizzy even if I breath it in. My health is so much better once it was determined what was causing it and I made changes in my life to avoid it. I know first-hand how being exposed as a child unwillingly can effect your life and your health. And now we know how bad it is for us, then there wasn't any concern about the health effects of cigarettes.

So Bogger, I support your passion to decide how you live and that it's your choice what you expose your kids to. It is noone's business but yours. But I do ask you to re-think it from your kids perspective and what their choice would be if they had the knowledge you do about it. I know I wish I had the choice or that my parents had more knowledge to make a different choice for me. Consider the rights of a child not only the rights of a smoker.

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Bogger, Taminator, Scotford, thunder44, Cyle, JaySimon, sledderdoc+, Thunderr, fhe

WOW....... It's become a spectator sport......

So far as me "justifying" so be it.... like I said my kids spend 99.8% of thier lives with no exposure........ again my point was not to defend the actions of those who choose to expose thier children...it was to defend thier right to choose, be it right or wrong.....

and Taminator your right.... I have to live with the choices I make for my children that is why I do not smoke in my house AT ALL, nor the camper nor anywhere indoors where my children are or will be.....OTHER than my car, my kids ride a bus to school and might travel in my car with me for an average of 1 hour a week in which time I will have 1 cigarette with the window down ect...as explained previous....

I am not proud of my habbit, nor do I think I have the right to expose others unwillingly. I've always tried to be curtious even when smoking was allowed in public places.....that said my issue lies with the freedom of choice.
A bar owner is not allowed to choose to make his establishment a smoking area due to WCB workplace regulations....Out of principal I would like to try to open a small pub with no employees other than myself and see how they would justify a smoking ban....Owners/directors are not covered by WCB.

AGAIN I WANT TO STRESS I'M NOT SUPPORTING THE HABBIT NOR THE EXPOSURE, I'M STANDING UP FOR A PERSONS RIGHT TO CHOOSE IN A FREE COUNTRY BE IT RIGHT OR WRONG WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING RANDOMLY ATTACKED.......

Some really good points are being made here lets please make sure we keep this debate clean ... we don't want any feelers getting hurt (its one of my pet peeves)

sumx54 said:

Some really good points are being made here lets please make sure we keep this debate clean ... we don't want any feelers getting hurt (its one of my pet peeves)

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Sometimes it hard to keep it clean .............. just sayin