Sledding Area at Risk

[Summiteer]

As long as there is reasonable discussion, there is the chance of a resolution that everyone can live with. The more input on both sides, the better.

[Dogbite]

ICBC classifies snowmobiles as snow vehicles, snow cats are classified as snow vehicles also.
The best example of where similar protection to protect public safety is provided in the Forest and Range practices act. In the Forest service road use regulation in section 3.3 It states the following:

(3) A person must not operate a snowmobile on a forest service road if it appears that the road has been snowplowed, or that the road is otherwise fit for travel by motor vehicles other than snowmobiles.

The reason that this law is in place is in place is to protect the public from collisions with large heavy vehicles coming down slippery roads. BRC’s snowcat roads are 2-3 times as steep as a normally logging road and much narrower – so this same issue applies – but the risk of a serious collision is even greater.
Therefore, snowcats are deemed in the same category and are not exempt from the regulation either.

KierenGaul said, "However last winter we had a persistent problem with some snow mobilers coming up from Washington state, and 2 sled skiers. The result of this has been that we have has 2 accidents and 5 near misses on our snowcat roads."

I think that this statement is the basis for Big Red Cats application. What BRCs wants to do is restrict everyone else from the area because of a "[COLOR="Red"]persistent problem with some snow mobilers coming up from Washington state and 2 sled skiers[COLOR="Black"]". I think that this is a very weak agrument for a blanket restriction.

If the Washington sledders are entering Canada without passing through a border portal, then Customs and Immigration and the RCMP should be notified and I'm sure that the US Border Agencies would be happy to receive that information as well.

As far as "sled skiers" are concerned, these individuals have evolved along with snowmobile use as well and should have the same access rights as anyone else. Afterall, what came first, the snowmobile or the snowcat/trailgroomer? I can appreciate the fact that an increase in "sled skiers" would be a detriment to BRC's business, but I don't see it as a reason to restict snowmobile access to the back country.

[Mongrol]

Keep fighting it guys, any concession gives a lever to the otherside. The exclusivists today don't understand "shared assets" and will divert attention to other issues such as safety and environmental extremes.

DON'T TRUST FALSE LOGIC AND CONTRIVED GOOD INTENTIONS!!!

[KierenGaul]

Originally Posted by kootenaycat

Kieran, I see your point about hiring more people, but I feel you are taking the easiest way out of the liability issue by restricting access. We are feeling more and more restrictions whether it's snowmobiling or atving, or just taking a hike where once it was wilderness but now is a housing development. Is there a way to make the snowcat trails wider or on a less steeper incline? Yes it may cost a bit more, but then you would be thinking about both of our interests, not restricting ours.

BTW, what are your future plans for the tenured area? Basically, I am flat out asking if you intend to apply for exclusive use as Selkirk Wilderness has? Not that I am expecting the truth on that question, just tired of beating around the bush on this subject.

And lastly, again you failed to mention the meaning of "temporarily restricting access" as quoted from the local paper. I would really like to know what that statement means.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks for these suggestions. I have tried to answer them one by one below. We are also organising a meeting for anyone interested in this issue at 7pm on this Wednesday at the Red Shutter Inn at the base of Red. If you can make it great - if not, I would be happy to meet with you at any other time that might be covienient for you - Please do not hesitate to call me on 250 362 2271

It is not possible to widen or reduce the steepness of the incline without explosives and very large excavators something that we could not afford and something that would not be looked upon favorably by many people in the local community.

Because of the strong local support and great deal of respect that we have enjoyed we felt the approach that we have taken is the best one. Although we have a great respect for the Selkirk operation that you mentioned - we thought that a different approach was the right way to go. If we had the intention of applying for a Selkirk type closure – we simply would have made the application to do so. So the answer is no to your question. However the issue for us is safety - we can not afford to have any more accidents on our snow cat roads.

Temporarily restricting access means that during the time that we operate with the snowcats (normally from about the 20th December to the 26th March) that:
• Putting up very detailed and specific signage highlighting the danger – and urging people not to travel through these very specific parts of our snowcat roads unless they have contacted Big Red Cats first – there will be a phone number on each of these signs that can be called
• If we found people using those parts of snowcat roads - we would ask people not to use these sections of the snowcat roads that we have created - for safety reasons unless they call us first to arrange to safe travel on these sections of snowcat roads. We would explain as best we could the real safety issues and concerns that we have.
• As soon as the season is done we would remove the signs. We would also try to communicate with the local snowmobile club that we are done for the season.
• For those calling by telephone us we would indicate areas were there are not the currently the same safety issues or areas/or snow roads that we are not currently using for some reason. Or if they just wanted to pass through we could organise a safety person to radio them through safely.
• If we had a persistent safety issue with one group of people (say they were yoyo up and down these roads without regard) we would respectfully remind them of the safety issues. If they still continued to use these dangerous sections then we would then call the authorities and ask them to meet with the people at their cars/trucks. So that the authorities could also respectfully discuss the safety issues with those involved.


Kieren

[kootenaycat]

Just got back from the meeting with Kieran from Big Red Cat Skiing. Must say I am very pleased with the progress from the talks. Roughly 15 sledders attended the meeting, and many had some great suggestions.

In the end, Kieran agreed to withdraw the application, and we (sledders) agreed to form a safety board with members from Big Red Cats where we could all agree on safe procedures for snowmobile travel on the dangerous cat routes. Plans are for public awareness for safe travel. Specifically, signage with warnings of the danger of sno cats travelling on the narrow, steep trails, with signs located at the bottom of each area that is a risk. As well, sledders will be self-policing, making out of town visitors aware of the dangers and how to travel safely. The areas where the cat skiiers are skiing will be shown, and hopefully respected by the sledders. Looks like a win-win situation for all!

Kieran gained my respect and I'm sure the respect from the guys at the meeting.

Cheers!

Kevin

[Dogbite]

Kevin,
Good Going!
ABC Snowmobile Clubs :: View topic - Sledding Area at Risk

[Mongrol]

Way to go everbody!!! This is the way all conflicts should be handled and resolved.

[KrazyCanadian]

Latest update: the request has been removed. BRC, Rosslands snowmobile club,and Castlegars snowmobile club have all agreed to join forces. Please read and respect the different signs posted. Lets keep this area safe, and open for years to come..

[KrazyCanadian]

The BRC has indeed dropped the request. Both Castlegar and Rossland sled clubs have joined forces with BRC. Please read and respect the signs posted.. Lets keep this area safe and open for years to come.

[cooper]

Originally Posted by tireguy

I have to say if you read all the thread their appears to be concern from both sides.That being said an effort to inform and educate ( perhaps with sinage at dangerous areas ) should be attempted. As far as ANY closure to crown lands I must shout a loud NO!!!! This is our land also. As sledders we contribute hugh $$$$ to local economys ( at least I seem to ) and we need to let all concerned know that we do not agree with this or any closure of crown land. Time to speak up and let your voice be heard. Write to the local MLA, join a local club, attend land use meetings and speak up.Otherwise we may be looking at sled videos and woundering why we never get out anymore not even seeing the vast tracts of minor closures that have been or will be issued . Just my .02 thanks for letting me post this. Dan

HERE HERE well said.